The PSEA officer team dives into the 2024 election and its potential impact on public education with Mary Kusler, NEA's Senior Director for the Center for Advocacy and Political Action. Mary shares insights on the political landscape, the importance of educators' involvement, and key issues like student loan debt, union rights, and federal funding for schools. Tune in as we discuss why this election could be the most consequential of our lifetimes and how educators can make their voices heard.
The PSEA officer team dives into the 2024 election and its potential impact on public education with Mary Kusler, NEA's Senior Director for the Center for Advocacy and Political Action. Mary shares insights on the political landscape, the importance of educators' involvement, and key issues like student loan debt, union rights, and federal funding for schools. Tune in as we discuss why this election could be the most consequential of our lifetimes and how educators can make their voices heard.
Do you have some feedback for us? Send an email to podcast@psea.org.
Learn more and watch for upcoming episodes at psea.org/podcast.
Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you. From cutting-edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions, if it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello, and welcome to Duty Free lunch. I am PSEA President Aaron Chapin, and I'm here once again with PSEA Vice President Jeff Ney, and PSEA Treasurer Rachael West. Hello, Jeff and Rachael.
Jeff Ney:
Hey Aaron. How are we doing today?
Rachael West:
Hi, Aaron. Hi, Jeff.
Aaron Chapin:
It's great to be back.
Jeff Ney:
It is.
Aaron Chapin:
We're here for another season.
Jeff Ney:
I cannot believe that that first season went so quickly.
Aaron Chapin:
I know.
Jeff Ney:
It's such a good timing I had to come back.
Rachael West:
Time flies when you're having fun.
Aaron Chapin:
You get a lot of fan mail, Rachael?
Rachael West:
You won't let me look at the podcast email, Aaron.
Aaron Chapin:
I don't get them either, so.
Jeff Ney:
No, I don't get them either.
Aaron Chapin:
Well...
Jeff Ney:
Still no advice.
Aaron Chapin:
I'm excited that we're back for another season. It's a brand new school year.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
I'm very excited for all that it's about to bring, not just for our students, but we got a big election coming ahead of us.
Jeff Ney:
We do.
Aaron Chapin:
Elections. We've got a lot of elections.
Rachael West:
It's not just the top of the ballot.
Aaron Chapin:
Nope.
Rachael West:
All the way down counts.
Aaron Chapin:
No, and Pennsylvania is ground zero for this 2024 election year. And we're going to really kind of cut this chitchat short because we've got a lot of questions for today's guests. Today, as we've insinuated, we're talking politics, and it turns out that there's kind of a big election coming up this November, as I'm sure many of you out there have heard about, and there's been a lot of headlines out there. It's going to be a lot this year. And so we've brought in an expert to help us sort through all the noise on what in all seriousness could be the most consequential election of our lifetimes. We've got a special guest, Senior Director at NEA's Center for Advocacy, Mary Kusler. Mary, hello.
Mary Kusler:
Hello, everybody. Really glad to be here with you all today.
Aaron Chapin:
Did we get your title right?
Mary Kusler:
Almost.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh.
Mary Kusler:
It's a very long, complicated title.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, what's your full title?
Mary Kusler:
My full title is Senior Director for the Center for Advocacy and Political Action.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh, no. Somebody dropped the ball to the script on that one.
Jeff Ney:
Good job on the research.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, he's not here today, so we're okay. Just so y'all know, Mary oversees the advocacy efforts for more than 3 million educators across the NEA Affiliate Network, and she helps guide NEA's political efforts, helps shape key policies, manages a nationwide team, and, when she has a little extra time, she ensures strong relationships with our state and national elected officials, all that while she's overseeing a multimillion dollar budget to support educators and students. How do you find time to sleep, Mary? Welcome to the podcast. It is a great pleasure to have you here.
I know members this summer, when we were at the representative assembly in Philadelphia, they got to meet you and listen to you. They were excited. It was one of the most exciting caucuses that we've had in Pennsylvania. They were excited that you were there, and I know that our members are going to be really kind of interested to hear your thoughts as we pick your brain today. So let's just start off, Mary. We got a timely question, because yesterday we had the anticipated first and possibly only debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. So we'd like to get your take on how it went, and maybe you had some surprises from last night.
Mary Kusler:
Absolutely. Well, I think first of all, we need to kind of talk about what just happened this summer, because one of the memes running around right now is we are living what will undoubtedly be an AP US History course in 2055, having a change at the top of the ticket, which if we could all just step back a couple of months, actually was precipitated by the debate performance that President Biden did give at that time that really kind of led to a series of events that became a monumental first time ever switch at the top of the presidential ticket. And we can talk about there wasn't an open primary, but the reality is we know that Pennsylvanians, educators across the country, the public, they voted for the Biden-Harris ticket, so we know that that support was there.
And I believe that the other side of the ticket, in terms of former President Trump, was not ready to treat this seriously. And I think that's what we saw on display last night. I know a lot of us who are supporters are pro-public education candidates had a little PTSD from watching that debate in June and going into last night, and you're kind of like a little bit on edge, maybe had a beverage while watching. But what we saw last night should put out of people's minds any doubt that Vice President Harris is ready to rise to the occasion.
What we saw is her ability to lead in terms of being able to talk about the policies that are important, being able to talk about real issues confronting America, like housing costs. We know that for so many educators, the dream of owning a house is still a dream. It's still really costly. And she is right there talking about that. And then on the other side of that, we're talking about the size of rallying numbers. It's just so clear that she is ready for this moment. So I was definitely delighted but not surprised by her performance last evening. Certainly touched on many of the issues, and the reality is the only time we really saw education come up was when Trump was criticizing student loan forgiveness. I mean, we know how many of our members across the country are being able to afford things like houses or vacations or cars for the first time because of public student loan forgiveness. And so what he's calling a negative is actually a positive. So I think it just really sets up the contrast really well.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah, And as Rachael and Erin and I travel around the state and we talk to our members about several different elections, we've always find pockets that try to get excited about national elections. So how do you see the outcome of this presidential election impacting public education in Pennsylvania, particularly when it comes to funding and policy directions? In other words, why should our PSEA members care about who wins the White House?
Mary Kusler:
I've had the honor and joy of working for public school educators for over 25 years now, and I have never met one single educator who gets up and is like, "You know what? I became an educator because I want to get involved in politics." We know at the end of the day that the only reason why educators need to get involved in politics is because they know that that politics impacts what's happening in the classroom, on campus, and certainly what's happening to their students. We know that educators would rather spend time hanging out with their kids or running around to sports on the weekend rather than going to knock doors. And we know that the closest place you see those politics is in your local school board races when PSEA and the incredible members helped show Moms for Liberty the door last year. We know that mattered, but we also recognize it matters up and down the ballot all the way to the top.
Any educator, no matter where you are in your career at this point, who says, "I don't know what the federal government means for my day-to-day job," has to say four words. You just have to say four words. No child left behind. The rise of the standardized testing culture that really impacts the art of getting to students and reaching them where they are is very much dominated by the federal government. That is not a state decision. That's not a local community decision. The rise of standardized testing in this country is part of that federal government conversation, and that's what we need to vote against. But we also know in Pennsylvania, you've seen this right out, we know that there are the privatizers out there looking to privatize our public education system, to undermine our public education system. They're the same people who are going after unions.
These are not different efforts. They're also the same people going after voting rights. These are all connected efforts, and they're going to try to take that school choice privatization agenda to the federal level. We all remember Betsy DeVos.
Rachael West:
Boo, hiss.
Mary Kusler:
That just comes right back again.
Rachael West:
[inaudible 00:09:20].
Mary Kusler:
This election matters to each one of our educators and their students.
Rachael West:
Absolutely. You mentioned our unions and how the top of the ballot can affect our unions. And one of the things that's most important to our members, the thing that's the most front-facing for them is collective bargaining rights, and actually being allowed to have a union. What do you think, how do you think the election of either candidate could affect those collective bargaining rights and union protections for Pennsylvania educators?
Mary Kusler:
Well, I'd be remiss in talking about this question if I didn't talk about Scranton's own President Biden, because to be in a current administration environment where the president proudly says, "Union," proudly talks about union. Here's the fun thing, right? Let's talk about the fact that we, Dr. Biden, is a member of the National Education Association. So we've had the first lady as a member of a union. We're about to move to the incoming vice president, the vice president, governor Tim Walz, who many of our members don't realize is a classroom educator. He ran straight for Congress out of the classroom. How great is it going to be to have that educator voice right in that vice president? And more importantly, knowing the importance of a union. When he was in Minnesota, he was a part of Education Minnesota, the PSEA equivalent there.
We are expecting and have read, and everybody can read in Project 2025 the anti-labor views of former President Trump. And we know with the swipe of a pen, so much of labor rights is left to, especially in the public sector, is left to a state by state. That works for them until it doesn't. And in the sweep of a pen, they could just take out our collective bargaining rights, make it illegal.
Aaron Chapin:
And we've seen this. This is history repeating itself. This has happened at other state levels.
Mary Kusler:
Correct. I mean, we saw this in Wisconsin. We saw this in Michigan. It's taken Michigan 10 years to build back from the loss of collective bargaining that happened in 2010, 2011, to where they are now, which is the restoration of collective bargaining. We're looking at a state like Virginia, where my own kids go to school, which actually has collective bargaining for the first time in 30 years. We have members who are literally negotiating their very first contracts.
Jeff Ney:
So if collective bargaining and the impact of this election isn't big enough, there are some other issues that are also pretty big that are on the minds of a lot of our members talking about student loan debt or educator pensions or healthcare. How do you see this presidential election impacting those areas that affect all of our members?
Mary Kusler:
We mentioned it earlier, but student loan debt is an ongoing issue. It is an issue not only for our own members throughout their career, many of them are still sitting on substantial student loan debt, and we know that the student loan debt that they're often sitting on is coming from their graduate school programs, which are often required to keep up in the profession. So we know that that's an issue. But we also know that so many of our members, especially our high school educators or our college campus members, are seeing students struggling, figuring out how to capture that American dream because they can't figure out how to afford to get through school.
What we have seen this administration do is time and time again find ways to make sure that student loan debt is not burdening the next generation, to make sure... We talk about the public service loan forgiveness program, which is great, but how about these students who are now paying quadruple the size of the debt they originally took out to go to school, and they're not in an employment situation that will ever allow them to catch up?
Jeff Ney:
And we've had that conversation in other podcasts about that issue as well.
Mary Kusler:
And so we also know that that student loan debt is here. But we also know that healthcare, and it is so important, and we know that the healthcare that comes through so many of our schools and our campuses for our educators and our communities for our public service members are important. But we also know that our families may not have access to healthcare. People should not have to worry about going to the doctor.
Rachael West:
Right. Yeah. We're talking about money and we're talking about... So I'm going to switch to funding. How do you foresee the election results influencing federal education funding and the allocation of resources to Pennsylvania schools, particularly in the underserved areas?
Mary Kusler:
Well, I think we have no better example than what we're currently seeing in the extremish leadership, going on in the extreme leadership, going on in the House of Representatives. They have put forth significant cuts in Title I funding, Title I driven to our children who are most in poverty, our communities that need the most assistance. Last year, they proposed an 80% cut in Title I funding, which would be a massive hit on Pennsylvania. And we know the overwhelming majority of that money is actually used to fund educator positions. Our members are paid out of Title I because they're the ones actually doing the work with our students in need. If we lose those educators from those positions because the federal government is cutting this funding, we know that that's a huge risk.
But let me go one step further. Imagine they're not only talking about cutting this funding from Title I, also cutting this funding from special education, but what if they turn around and say to us, "Oh, well, we don't actually have money to invest in those areas because we've decided we want to invest in private school vouchers." We know this is a huge threat to our students to actually being able to serve those students and communities in need. So I think there's a direct impact of what we could see going based on the outcomes of this election.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, so we're a swing state here, obviously.
Mary Kusler:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
It's not always the title that we want, but it is an honor because we can time and time step up. So if we're talking with our educators, our support staff in this state, what can they do to be engaged in this election process really and advocate for those policies that are going to benefit public education. And is NEA involved in any way with that as well?
Mary Kusler:
Oh, why yes, we are.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh, do tell.
Mary Kusler:
So first of all, we know the very first, most important thing that every educator in Pennsylvania needs to know is they need to have that plan to vote. They need to make sure they're registered, they need to make sure they know where they're going to vote, and they need to make sure that they are checking that every member of their household, and those... Do you have a child who just went off to college?
Aaron Chapin:
I do. And she actually voted in the primary.
Mary Kusler:
Are we making sure she is registered and ready to go?
Aaron Chapin:
Actually, we had a conversation over the weekend to make sure she gets her absentee ballot.
Mary Kusler:
Right.
Aaron Chapin:
[inaudible 00:17:04].
Mary Kusler:
These are questions. These are the questions we have to make sure we're asking in this moment. We got to make sure that everybody has a plan to vote in the 2020 election. Do you know that one in 28 voters, that is one out of every 28 voters, was either a member of the NEA or someone who lives in a household?
Aaron Chapin:
I don't think I knew that.
Rachael West:
Wow.
Mary Kusler:
A member of NEA.
Aaron Chapin:
I don't think I knew that. Wow.
Mary Kusler:
So when we talk about the importance of knowing what your plan to vote is, making sure your household has a plan to vote, you can just go straight to NEA's website, www.educationvotes.nea.org. We have a great way, and it's also available in Spanish to make that plan to vote. But we also know that a lot of people, we were seeing it among our own membership, are enthusiastic about this election, which is very exciting. Enthusiasm doesn't vote. People do.
Aaron Chapin:
That's right.
Mary Kusler:
So we need people making calls. We need people making sure that everybody knows what's at stake. You'd be surprised how few people really do know that Vice Presidential candidate Governor Tim Walz was an educator. We need to tell that stories and our members are the best ones to do that.
Aaron Chapin:
I think you could tell by last night there were so many watch parties, and you didn't see that two months ago. We had members gathered together all across the Commonwealth to just watch a debate, which is... It blows my mind. But the excitement's there. But that's the first step in getting involved for some of our members. So that's going to take us to the lightning round.
Jeff Ney:
Oh, lightning round [inaudible 00:18:34].
Aaron Chapin:
We've got a-
Jeff Ney:
Okay.
Aaron Chapin:
I know. We don't do this all the time, but it's a lightning round, so got to keep it a little shorter.
Mary Kusler:
Got it.
Aaron Chapin:
Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
Well, I'm going to set you up with a softball, all right? So who do you predict will win the presidential election and why?
Mary Kusler:
I believe that Vice President Harris will become a wonderful president, just not the first female president, but actually just be a great president for this country along with Governor Tim Walz as vice president, because this country is going to realize what's at stake in this election, and we're going to make sure everybody gets out to vote.
Aaron Chapin:
Fantastic.
Rachael West:
All right. I have the second question. Is there still time to make a difference with advocacy in this election?
Mary Kusler:
There is all the time. It's amazing. I'm weird. I focus on this stuff year-round, but a lot of people don't think about elections till after Labor Day. This is the perfect time of year as everybody's grabbing their pumpkin spice lattes and the leaves are changing to start talking about elections and making sure that everybody is registered to vote.
Aaron Chapin:
Let's get on it. So you're in an elevator. We like to ask this question every once in a while. You're in an elevator. So you know, got a couple minutes in between floors. What's your pitch to somebody who's undecided about this presidential election? What's your pitch? You got two minutes.
Mary Kusler:
Well, I'll take even less than that. This election is actually the most important election of our lifetime, and in order to secure that we have a Democratic election in 2028, electing somebody who supports our democracy and supports our education system, our workers, our labor unions is the only way to go. And that candidate is Vice President Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walz.
Aaron Chapin:
Not bad.
Rachael West:
Solid answer.
Aaron Chapin:
Not bad.
Jeff Ney:
And just circling back, we know every vote's going to count in Pennsylvania, so we've got to make sure that we have all those, because we saw a lot of our elections come down to just a handful of votes in certain areas.
Aaron Chapin:
It was close back in 2020.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah.
Mary Kusler:
And we know that while our membership votes outpaces the general public, that margin of our own membership that doesn't vote could be the linchpin in this election. So we need to make sure that every PSA member gets out and votes and every householder gets out and vote and is voting for pro-public education candidates up and down the ballot. It is not about party. It is about standing with pro-public education candidates.
Aaron Chapin:
That is correct. Guess what time it is, Jeff?
Jeff Ney:
Is it pop quiz time already?
Aaron Chapin:
It's the first one of the new season.
Jeff Ney:
Fantastic.
Aaron Chapin:
Pop quiz time. Hit it, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
So, Mary, you've been with the NEA for how long?
Aaron Chapin:
14 years.
Jeff Ney:
14 years. But your love for public education probably goes a lot further than that. You mentioned your own kids in public school. What do you absolutely love about public education?
Mary Kusler:
I love that it is the great equalizer. I love that every student, no matter who you are, no matter what your background is, no matter where you've come from, no matter what your religion, gender, anything, you get to walk in those doors and be greeted and taught incredible things that you probably never knew possible. And the commitment and dedication that educators bring, that's what gets our members up every day. They get up to serve students. That to me is the power and joy of our public education system, is the ability to create something out of nothing and open an unlimited world of possibilities.
Jeff Ney:
That was a great answer.
Aaron Chapin:
And I know she means it.
Jeff Ney:
You could hear the energy in her own voice.
Aaron Chapin:
We've told the story, but we won't tell it on this podcast. But I've witnessed Mary at an establishment in Philadelphia defend public education to another-
Jeff Ney:
Oh, I did hear that story.
Aaron Chapin:
... another customer, and she absolutely means it. And that's the kind of people we have working for us at NEA. And it means a lot.
Jeff Ney:
It does. It supports everybody all the way down into our locals.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, unfortunately, we have run long.
Jeff Ney:
Oh. [inaudible 00:22:28].
Aaron Chapin:
I know we have people that are used to the 22 minutes, and we've gone long.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
But it's okay, because it was for a good cause. Today's guest was the senior director at NEA Center for Advocacy and...
Mary Kusler:
Political Action.
Aaron Chapin:
Political Action. I need to write that down. It's Mary Kusler, everybody. So Mary, thank you very much for making the trek up from dc. We really appreciate you being here.
Mary Kusler:
Well, I look forward to many trips more to Pennsylvania between now and election day, but it's great to join you all as always.
Aaron Chapin:
And I'm sure we will have you on the podcast again sometime down the road and maybe at some PSEA events. It's always fun to have your energy in the room. And as I said, listeners, I'm sorry, we're out of time. Thanks for tuning in. Do you have some feedback? Do you got some questions? Maybe you want advice from Rachael West?
Rachael West:
Yay. I get to give advice this season.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, I'm hoping, because Jeff got-
Jeff Ney:
I didn't do [inaudible 00:23:17] at all.
Aaron Chapin:
I think he got one...
Jeff Ney:
I got one.
Aaron Chapin:
... one email.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
So, look, if you want real advice, you got to send it though to podcast@sea.org. I am Aaron Chapin.
Jeff Ney:
And I'm Jeff Ney.
Rachael West:
And I'm Rachael West.
Aaron Chapin:
And you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more, and don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.