The officer team sits down with PSEA Government Relations gurus Dan Wiedemer and Erika Brunelle to discuss the hits and misses for educators in the 2024-25 Pennsylvania state budget.
The officer team sits down with PSEA Government Relations gurus Dan Wiedemer and Erika Brunelle to discuss the hits and misses for educators in the 2024-25 Pennsylvania state budget.
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Learn more and watch for upcoming episodes at psea.org/podcast.
Voiceover (00:02):
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you. From cutting edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions, if it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin (00:24):
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President Aaron Chapin, and today I am here with PSEA Vice President Jeff Ney.
Jeff Ney (00:34):
Good afternoon, Aaron.
Aaron Chapin (00:35):
Hello, Jeff. And I'm also here with PSEA Treasurer, Rachel West. Good afternoon, Rachel.
Rachael West (00:41):
Good afternoon, gentlemen. How are you doing?
Aaron Chapin (00:43):
Well, it's an exciting day for us here at PSEA. Very exciting. Very exciting, because for the first time we are in our new digs, our new recording studio. How's it look, Jeff?
Jeff Ney (00:53):
I think it looks absolutely fantastic. I hope the quality is for our listeners is just as great.
Aaron Chapin (00:59):
Rachel, first impressions?
Rachael West (01:01):
I think it's pretty neat to be in a real live studio.
Aaron Chapin (01:04):
We've got soundproofing, we've got brown walls. There's no shelves of debris. It's like we're actually doing this for real.
Jeff Ney (01:14):
It actually is, instead of a, it's a supply closet.
Aaron Chapin (01:17):
Well, hopefully they hit record so we're doing this.
Jeff Ney (01:19):
Okay.
Aaron Chapin (01:20):
But we got to get to work, because it's a great time for us, not just because this is our new studio, and not because the last time we recorded this, we were not the award-winning Duty Free Lunch.
Jeff Ney (01:32):
Well, we are, and we're-
Aaron Chapin (01:32):
Now we are the award-winning Duty Free Lunch.
Jeff Ney (01:34):
That's fantastic.
Aaron Chapin (01:35):
I know. But even more important, we got ourselves a state budget.
Jeff Ney (01:38):
Yes, we did.
Aaron Chapin (01:39):
And it's fantastic.
Jeff Ney (01:40):
It is.
Aaron Chapin (01:40):
So with us today, we have PSEA's Assistant Executive Director for Government Relations. That's a really long title, but it's worthy of Dan Wiedemer. How are you doing, Dan?
Dan Wiedemer (01:51):
Hey, everybody. Thrilled to be back. My third time joining you on the podcast.
Aaron Chapin (01:56):
Just so everybody out there knows, third time.
Dan Wiedemer (01:58):
I assume they're keeping track.
Aaron Chapin (02:00):
They are.
Dan Wiedemer (02:00):
But also thrilled to be breaking in the new studio.
Aaron Chapin (02:02):
Well, thank you for being here. He is a returning guest, as Dan proclaimed, and he's also here today with Erica Brunel for the very first time, Assistant Director of Government Relations. How you doing, Erica?
Erika Brunelle (02:13):
I'm thrilled to be here and I'm very excited to get my Duty Free Lunch mug.
Aaron Chapin (02:18):
Oh, well, it is one of the best parts of being on this podcast. They're going to walk us through the education funding pieces of the state budget, which was passed in July. So let's get right to it, because the state budget does include $1.3 billion in increases for education. And believe it or not, everybody, this was a budget that actually had bipartisan support. We had legislators from both parties voting for it. Dan, you got to tell us, how did it come to be that Democrats and Republicans came together for this great budget?
Dan Wiedemer (02:52):
Well, it's really interesting, because when we first talked about what we expected out of the state budget, I don't know that there was going to be a big number attached to the education funding line. I think the question is what sort of strings would come along with it? There was a threat of school vouchers sitting out there. There was all sorts of potential trades that existed. And I think what we saw, and I'm interested to get Erica's perspective, because we have not debriefed on this yet, but I think what we saw is that we have been investing in this idea of elevating public education as a key issue. And that starts with electing the right people, like Governor Shapiro. It goes on to building bipartisan relationships with both Democrats and Republicans, building up this organization's advocacy efforts. And I think all of that really came together to help make this budget possible.
Aaron Chapin (03:49):
What do you think about that, Erica?
Erika Brunelle (03:49):
I mean, I think this budget definitely shows that our strategy is working and the focus on pro-public education candidates, pro-public education policies, there are issues that Pennsylvanians care about and clearly those Pennsylvanians are communicating that to their elected officials.
Jeff Ney (04:05):
Yeah, and the last time we actually got Dan on the podcast, we were talking about the budget and he was not very optimistic of it actually passing during our traditional timeline. And they actually did get it done. And for the first time in over a decade, the budget actually includes funding for reimbursing school districts for some of what they require to pay to our cyber charter schools. So why do you think the lawmakers decided to go down that avenue?
Dan Wiedemer (04:33):
Well, I think, so there is broad agreement that cyber charters are having a real impact on school district budgets. Now, that doesn't mean that there's not a role for those programs. It doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be funded. It just means that we need to understand how to properly pay for them. And I think that there was agreement, look, there was a lot of horse-trading going back and forth, and much credit goes to the house majority leader Matt Bradford, the Senate majority leader, Joe Pittman, who came together in a bipartisan fashion to do this. But there was agreement that we needed to do something with cyber charter funding. And this is for some people, a first initial step in making sure that we are right sizing that funding for cyber charters.
Jeff Ney (05:22):
Yeah, I'll tell you what, and our school districts are really going to reap the benefits of something along those lines. As you said, that money is being taken away from our regular ed programs.
Rachael West (05:33):
And I know we were talking about all these different things that we're looking at funding for education, and one of the biggest things that was new was the student teacher stipend program, and that was one of PSEA's top priorities. FIA said that we needed 45 million to fund the stipends for every student teacher who applies for one. So we know that's not the number we got. So what is the next step for us and what do we need to do to get that fully funded?
Dan Wiedemer (06:01):
Well, Erica did a lot of work on this, so I'm going to turn it over to her in a moment here. But I think it's important for us to first celebrate the win. This is a relatively new program. It started, it was quickly, we reached the maximum capacity within a couple of hours, when the program was initially created. So we've now gone back and gotten another $20 million for this program. And this is a testament to legislators who care deeply about solving the teacher shortage. But also, let's give some credit to PSEA student members, who were out there advocating for this, meeting with legislators, appearing at press conferences. I hope they see the political power that they have in getting a $20 million win in this budget, which is not easy to do, right?
Erika Brunelle (06:47):
Yeah. And to be able to, PSEA as an organization, communicate with our student members to keep them abreast of the opening of those programs, to encourage them to be ready to apply. I mean, what can we do to continue the pressure and to continue the push for funding? We need to show the demand and obviously the demand, excuse me, is there, but to the extent that PSEA as an organization can continue to engage our student members, to keep them abreast of those future opportunities to advocate next budget cycle, that is our greatest strength.
Aaron Chapin (07:26):
I mean, it would've been great if we had gotten all the money we were asking for, but we've come a long way in 12 months. And on that point, Erica, our student members are super excited about what they were able to achieve, and I know that they're coming back hungry for more. And that's why I hope we get this year.
Jeff Ney (07:43):
Yeah, it's just like every other negotiations that all of our members have gone through. I mean, you really shoot for the sky as far as the ask that you have, but sometimes you don't always get all the way there.
Aaron Chapin (07:54):
Yeah. Well, we had a lot of successes in this budget and unfortunately we do need to talk about some of the things that we weren't able to achieve. And we mounted a massive campaign to get ourselves a cost of living adjustment for our pre-act nine retirees. We have about 40,000 of them and they haven't seen, as we've talked about on this podcast and in lots of our media, they haven't had a COLA in 22 years. And so, some lawmakers, they stayed kind of away from this. And so what are we going to need to do, Dan and Erica, to get this cost of living adjustment for our pre-act nine retirees? I know both of you worked super hard to try and make this happen. I know it's a personal mission for both of you. What do we got to do? Because as soon as this budget came out, I was hearing from our retirees and they want to know, what are we going to do?
Erika Brunelle (08:48):
So the lack of a COLA for our pre-act nine retirees is certainly kind of a pall hanging over an otherwise really positive budget. And it's really frustrating, because the GR team and our ACES, and our retired members, and organization-wide, we spent the entire spring and summer leading up to the budget meeting with lawmakers, handwritten postcards. And I think the one encouraging thing is, is that from the one-on-one meetings that we've had with representatives and senators, with a very strong focus on Republican elected officials is that there is a lot of support for this COLA.
(09:26)
Legislators have said, "This is a human issue, it's a fairness issue." They have responded to our members that have written to their offices and said, "I support you and I believe this is the right thing to do."
(09:37)
And what the challenge is, and quite frankly always has been, is that COLA has a cost attached to it. And for our 40,000 retired educators, support staff, and then there are another 20,000 other retired state workers, these are AFSCME members, SEIU members, you have CW members that are also deserving of this COLA. The cost to give between a 15 and 24.5% COLA to that roughly 65,000, those 65,000 seniors is $1.6 billion spread over 10 years. So that's $160 million.
(10:18)
And we know that all budget decisions, state budget decisions are about priorities. And so, when we were looking at the overall pot, and then of course the Commonwealth court ruling, and starting to resolve the unconstitutionality of our funding system, lawmakers saw that as the priority in terms of those difficult decisions that they had to make. Now, I will say I think naturally we'll continue on with this advocacy and a hard push, and we're already making plans for the fall. There are potential opportunities in terms of new funding streams that we can look at, but for the security of the Peacehurst fund, and to ensure that if we can secure COLA, that those COLA's are paid as they're promised, we have to find a corresponding funding source.
Aaron Chapin (11:14):
Well, I want to just make sure everybody out there who's listening knows, I just want to say how much we appreciate everything that both of you and the entire government relations team did try and make that happen. I know it was personal mission for you all, and I do believe. I still have hope that we're going to get there before it's too late.
Rachael West (11:31):
I don't have any doubts that our GR department and our members are going to continue to make that fight. One of the other things that we see as a bright spot in this budget was actually the higher education. In addition to the 20 million for the student-teacher stipend program, it also includes funding for two new scholarship programs that could encourage college students to become educators. Could you tell us a little bit more about how these programs are going to work for the college students?
Dan Wiedemer (11:59):
Yeah, this is a really interesting program, because it addresses a couple of different areas. Of course, an educator shortage in Pennsylvania, we're going to talk about that momentarily. But we also have a demographic problem in Pennsylvania. We have young people who are leaving the state that makes all of those challenges a lot worse. And we have a cost of college problem in this Commonwealth. So the legislature coming up with this idea of providing $5,000 in annual scholarships to students is really exciting and interesting. And Rachel, you mentioned they're looking at in-demand careers. So that would include teachers, nurses, people who are involved in farming, in business, in tech-related jobs. So it will offset the cost of state system schools. There will also be funding to offset the cost differences for out-of-state students coming to Pennsylvania, who want to study in-state. Now, in exchange for that, any student who accepts these scholarships is going to be required to live and work in the state after they graduate for an additional 12 months for every year they receive the scholarship.
(13:08)
So four years of scholarships gets you $20,000. In exchange for that, you are going to be teaching in Pennsylvania for four years, hopefully putting down some roots, meeting someone, maybe starting a family. This is really important for us. And I think, Erica, you could weigh in on this if you'd like, but I think a lot of credit goes to Senator Scott Martin who pursued this. The Senate Republicans made this a priority at the budget table and the Shapiro administration I think worked really closely with them to make it happen. This is exciting. I think this is one of the best parts of the budget and is going to have one of the greatest long-term effects.
Erika Brunelle (13:44):
Absolutely. And I think a big part of the rationale behind Senator Martin's putting this proposal forward is also an issue that's of interest to our members in the higher ed sector, our folks in the PACI institutions and the community colleges. Because attracting the program that is specific to attracting out-of-state students is for those out-of-state students to attend our PACI institutions, which have seen declining enrollment and a lot of, I guess, upheaval over the last several years with system redesign, and combining campuses, and things like that. So any initiative that we can, one, again, to help bolst those in-demand careers, especially in education, but also to continue to drive enrollment where our members are teaching is absolutely going to be very helpful, not only to our members, but to Pennsylvania.
Aaron Chapin (14:39):
Really great idea. It's a really great idea, very innovative. You got to spend a little money if you're going to make some money and really fill those positions.
Jeff Ney (14:45):
And again, it's super excited to know that our legislators are now starting to work with us. I mean, we've started our Educator Rising program to try to bring education back into our high schools. We have a podcast about that. Take a look at our list. And now, to know that the legislators were on the same page to try to get more educators to stay here in Pennsylvania, that's just very exciting.
Aaron Chapin (15:05):
And it's bipartisan.
Jeff Ney (15:06):
Which is always-
Aaron Chapin (15:07):
Brilliant, brilliant.
Jeff Ney (15:08):
Yeah.
Dan Wiedemer (15:08):
And just the last thing on this, Jeff, if you consider a aspiring educator, suddenly your college tuition costs may be reduced by $20,000 right off the top, and you may be eligible for a stipend program when you do your student teaching. That completely changes the math of someone going into education as a profession and helps people who otherwise may not be able to make that step. And we hope really changes the future of education in Pennsylvania.
Aaron Chapin (15:38):
Hopefully changes the demographics of everybody going into education, which is something we've been working for a while now.
Jeff Ney (15:44):
Yeah. And again, as Rachel and Aaron and I travel around the state, I mean, we talk to a lot of our members and we hear another big win that we got in this budget from a lot of our members. And that is dealing with how important it is to support our students' mental health and safety. Now, this budget includes a hundred million dollars for the school safety and mental health programs. So could you guys explain to our listeners exactly how can our schools use this funding?
Erika Brunelle (16:15):
Sure. So these lines have been around for several years now and have garnered broad-based consensus among legislators and stakeholders, in terms of just the necessity for this funding and also the efficacy of it. So a hundred million dollars supports both mental health and physical security improvements in schools. And the funds are driven out based on average daily membership. So schools are guaranteed a certain allotment of those funds. And so, they can use those funds for things like physical security improvements, whether it's locked vestibules for entryways, for metal detectors, it's up to the local school entity, how they use those funds. Conversely, they can also use them for more preventative measures, like student mental health, so things like hiring counselors and psychologists, and nurses, and professionals. It can be for bolstering and improving or establishing partnerships with community-based organizations that can help support students' mental health needs.
(17:25)
It can be for things like trauma-informed approaches, deescalation techniques, different positive behavior supports. So basically anything that's kind of grounded in research and those kind of proven practices. And it's good, because it leaves it up to the local to decide how to best meet the school needs and what allowable use to pull down from. And I think one of the important things that the School Safety and Security Committee has done is they've set some baseline criteria. So they say, "Before you go above and beyond and go do this big elaborate thing, you have to have some foundational things, like you have to have a school nurse in your building."
Jeff Ney (18:09):
So this is a great opportunity for our locals to talk with their unit serves, to talk to their district to see exactly what they can do, again, to work together for the betterment of the students that we all got into this position, got into these jobs to do.
Aaron Chapin (18:21):
A hundred million dollars is great. I'm sure this is going to be quickly used up and, poof, gone. Any idea how they're going to be able to get access to this? Is there a program set up for this or is it brand new? How are they going to go about that?
Erika Brunelle (18:36):
It is set up and the solicitations have gone out, and I think the end of September is the deadline for schools. And they've been doing this for years, so kind of it's become a second nature sort of thing for them. The process is well established, yeah.
Aaron Chapin (18:50):
Well, it's great that the state recognizes how important this is to our schools these days, and I hope it's money that's going to go to really great things.
Jeff Ney (18:58):
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin (18:59):
Well, it's pop quiz time, Jeff.
Jeff Ney (18:59):
Oh, fantastic.
Aaron Chapin (18:59):
Pop quiz.
Jeff Ney (19:03):
So I was thinking about the pop quiz question, and again, Dan, I'm coming back to you because you gave us some very bad fortune-telling as far as-
Aaron Chapin (19:12):
I didn't believe him, by the way. I was so optimistic.
Jeff Ney (19:15):
Were you?
Aaron Chapin (19:15):
I was.
Rachael West (19:15):
Yeah, that sounds, that tracks. That totally sounds like Aaron.
Jeff Ney (19:19):
Yeah, Rachel and I must've been in a different meeting, but that's okay.
Aaron Chapin (19:22):
It was a different podcast you were on.
Jeff Ney (19:23):
Oh, was it?
Aaron Chapin (19:23):
Yes.
Jeff Ney (19:24):
Oh my goodness. So let me ask you this question. Again, pulling out your crystal ball, which we know is fractured, what's the likelihood that we continue this kind of momentum in next year's or in two years when it comes to investing in public education?
Dan Wiedemer (19:43):
Well, first I kind of want to go back and look at the tape.
Jeff Ney (19:46):
You can absolutely come back and-
Aaron Chapin (19:48):
It's digital, there's no tape. You just dated yourself.
Dan Wiedemer (19:51):
I did a little bit there. Well, so this was a remarkable budget, and I think it's important for us to acknowledge how difficult it was to achieve it, how incredible and unique this was. A really, really special budget. So achieving this every year, extraordinarily difficult. But, but to show you my optimism, Mr. Vice President, I carry my optimism here. This is going to come down to how Pennsylvania votes.
(20:25)
We have an election coming up in just a couple of months, and the people who are holding that gavel, who are determining what bills move forward in the House and the Senate, the people who are negotiating the budget are ultimately the ones that are going to shape the contours of this budget the most. And what we saw over the past couple of months is PSEA is a really tremendous organization in terms of its ability to impact policy and to advocate. We're even better as a political organization, because we are an organization of members that has such deep connections in their communities. Educators are all connectors, and it doesn't matter what party you are. Democrat, Republican, it does not matter if our folks talk to their friends and neighbors, and share with them who our pro-public education candidates are. We can continue the success for many years to come.
Jeff Ney (21:19):
We've always said that elections have consequences, but at this point, I think we've seen the momentum. And again, you hit the nail on the head. Our educators are those people in the community that everybody listens to and trusts. So again, as long as we're talking about public education and what is in the best interest of our students, I think it's a win.
Aaron Chapin (21:39):
Erica, you feeling the optimism?
Erika Brunelle (21:42):
I'm always optimistic.
Jeff Ney (21:45):
Again, it must be a different podcast.
Aaron Chapin (21:47):
I think Dan said something that was absolutely important for everybody to remember, that this wasn't just our government relations team. As amazing as they are, this was our members, our staff working together. Think about all the months, Jeff and Rachel, that we've been working to get these priorities achieved. It took the entire school year, the entire school year, so much effort went into it. All of the press conferences, all the testimonies, all the op-eds, the podcasts, we had people coming in and lobbying. It took the collective efforts of everyone in our association. And this is, we've got something pretty amazing.
Rachael West (22:25):
Yeah, absolutely. We are a group of people that can make sure that people are motivated to get the things done that we need to get done. And teachers are always people who are like, "That's the goal. All right, we'll make this happen."
Aaron Chapin (22:38):
Yeah. Well.
Dan Wiedemer (22:39):
It's fantastic.
Aaron Chapin (22:39):
Well, this is a great occasion to be celebrating. We're in a new podcast studio. We're celebrating this great new budget, and that's all the time we've got, unfortunately for today. So our guests have been government relations team, Dan Wiedemer, Erica Brunel. Thank you again for coming in, celebrating with us. Breaking in a new podcast studio. Wasn't too bad, was it, Erica?
Erika Brunelle (23:04):
I had a good time. I'll be glad to be back at some point.
Dan Wiedemer (23:06):
The champagne is delicious. Thank you for that.
Aaron Chapin (23:09):
The executive director thought you deserve it. You deserve it. Erica, we'll have you back all by yourself. That way, Dan. I know he's like big brother watching you. Again, and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. If you have any feedback, got some questions. Maybe you want advice from Jeff?
Jeff Ney (23:26):
Yes.
Aaron Chapin (23:26):
Nobody's done it. They keep saying they will.
Jeff Ney (23:29):
Season two is my season.
Aaron Chapin (23:30):
Nobody wants your advice.
Jeff Ney (23:31):
Oh my God.
Aaron Chapin (23:31):
But maybe it'll happen. I hear there's some advice coming from the western part of the country.
Jeff Ney (23:36):
Oh, country? Or state?
Aaron Chapin (23:37):
Country.
Jeff Ney (23:38):
Country?
Aaron Chapin (23:39):
We'll see. But for all of our listeners out there, again, I'm Aaron Chapin.
Jeff Ney (23:43):
And I'm Jeff Ney.
Rachael West (23:44):
And Rachel West.
Aaron Chapin (23:47):
And you have been listening to the award-winning Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover (23:54):
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch, with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit pse.org/podcast to learn more, and don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.