Aaron and Jeff delve into student health and wellness with PSEA leaders Michelle Sholder and Adam Oldham. Michelle, president of PSEA’s Department of Pupil Services (DPS), and Adam, a school counselor, share their expertise on addressing issues like trauma, anxiety, and the impact of social media on students. They share practical strategies and emphasize the need for more certified student service professionals. They also explore PSEA's professional development opportunities and advocate for more empathetic, systemic solutions to help students thrive.
Aaron and Jeff delve into student health and wellness with PSEA leaders Michelle Sholder and Adam Oldham. Michelle, president of PSEA’s Department of Pupil Services (DPS), and Adam, a school counselor, share their expertise on addressing issues like trauma, anxiety, and the impact of social media on students. They share practical strategies and emphasize the need for more certified student service professionals. They also explore PSEA's professional development opportunities and advocate for more empathetic, systemic solutions to help students thrive.
Do you have some feedback for us? Send an email to podcast@psea.org.
Learn more and watch for upcoming episodes at psea.org/podcast.
Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you, from cutting-edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions. If it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President, Aaron Chapin. I'm joined today by our PSEA Vice president Jeff Ney. Good day, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
Good day, Aaron. How are we doing today?
Aaron Chapin:
I'm great. Sorry to all our listeners. I know many of you are tuning in, hoping to hear Rachel.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. Well.
Aaron Chapin:
She's not here.
Jeff Ney:
She's not here. She's on the road.
Aaron Chapin:
No. We're recording this during the month of November, so maybe you're listening to this sometime down the road, but the month of November, it's a pretty busy month for this officer team as well as all of our regions, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
It's absolutely fantastic. We get to get out into the regions. Everybody's having their leadership conferences or their fall houses of delegates. It's a great time to get to be re-engaged with our members.
Aaron Chapin:
That's right. And that's where Rachel is. She is off to the far northwest corner of the state. So she sends her apologies, but you'll see her down the road shortly enough.
Jeff Ney:
Absolutely.
Aaron Chapin:
Jeff, that's a great haircut, by the way.
Jeff Ney:
Hey, thank you very much.
Aaron Chapin:
Did you get it for the listeners?
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. I wanted to make sure that I looked my best for this podcast.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, we both got one today, so it's a really exciting day here at PSEA. Even more important though, we're going to be talking about student health. That's a real great segue, isn't it?
Jeff Ney:
Yeah, it is a very good segue.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah.
Jeff Ney:
We're not going to get an award for that.
Aaron Chapin:
No. Even though we are the award-winning, we are going to be talking about student health and wellbeing. And look, in all seriousness, this is one of the most critical topics in education today. We have two fantastic guests and they're going to be bringing a wealth of experience and an insight into this discussion.
So joining us today, we've got Michelle Shoulder, she's a school social worker, current president of PSEA's Department of Pupil Services. That's DPS for all you out there. Our DPS division supports a diverse range of professionals, including school counselors, schools... I'm sorry, social workers, dental hygienists, school nurses, school psychologists, and all focused on ensuring students receive really the best care and services possible. How you doing, Michelle?
Michelle Sholder:
I am great. Thanks so much.
Aaron Chapin:
Thank you for joining us. And also with Michelle, we got two guests. We have Adam Oldham. He's a school counselor at Big Spring School District. That's One Spring. Big Spring School District and the school counselor section president. Adam works directly with students, helping them to navigate academic, social and emotional challenges. How are you doing, Adam?
Adam Oldham:
I'm doing well. Thanks for having us here.
Aaron Chapin:
Ah, thank you both. These are important. We like to have fun on this podcast from time to time, but these are some serious issues and we really wanted to bring light to what our students are facing today. So we're going to jump right into this. Michelle, can you start by giving us an overview of the role that PSEA's Department of Pupil Services plays in supporting student health and wellbeing and what kinds of professionals does it represent? Why is this so crucial in today's educational landscape?
Michelle Sholder:
So we have several sections. We have Adam's section, which is the school counselors. We have Angelina's section, which is the school social workers and the home and school visitors. We have Becky's section with certified school nurses. We have Kristin's section, which is the certified dental hygienists, and we have David's section, which is school psychologists.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow.
Michelle Sholder:
And we touch every student in a school district, not in the same ways as a teacher would or an instructional aid would, but by meeting kids where they are and providing the resources and the support so that they can be engaged academic learners.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. Such a big important part of the entire educational experience.
Jeff Ney:
And Noah, piggybacking on what Michelle said, Adam, this question is for you because as Michelle indicated, we all work very, very closely with the students on a daily basis, but as a school counselor, what do you think are some of the most pressing issues that you see impacting our students' wellbeing in your own district?
Adam Oldham:
Yeah. I mean, part of growing up is growing through school in the United States. Right? So it's a cultural moment. It's a rite of passage as we work our way through K to 12 education. And a lot of the things we deal with are normal human things, not getting along with friends, having some difficulty with a teacher, losing a parent or grandparent, going through the grieving process, adjusting to growth.
And so a lot of the things we deal with are normal human development things. We also work with students that are struggling with things. If they're dealing with grief, if they're dealing with any kind of adversity, we're there to help support their learning experience like Michelle said. I would say, if you wanted to know what my perspective on the biggest issues students are facing right now, it's really engagement.
Coming out of COVID, we've really seen student engagement as one of the biggest challenges of public education today. And so why? I think there's a lot of impact of technology, cell phone usage, and also just purposelessness, how do I find meaning in what I'm doing here at school? How do I connect this to what I want to do after school? How do I find meaning and purpose in what I'm doing? And that's not always an easy question even for us as adults to answer.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. And Michelle, as a school social worker, how about you? Same question, how about from your perspective?
Michelle Sholder:
I think with students coming out of the COVID era, we didn't realize how much support the schools played in their lives until that support wasn't there on a daily basis in person. And the levels of trauma that I'm seeing in my students in special education has gone through the roof. They're not okay.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah.
Michelle Sholder:
They faced a lot of challenges when they were stuck in homes that may or may not have been the best place for them, and not necessarily because their families weren't trying to do the best thing, but families face a lot of challenges. There are a lot of financial needs, chronic health conditions, just basic support needs that weren't always being met.
And that leads to a trauma response in a child. And now where a few years out, some of those toddlers are now coming into elementary school and they didn't learn how to accept no, and they didn't learn how to play with kids they're not related to, and they're finding to get really, really challenging to be in a classroom and follow those expectations now.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. I'm sure Aaron, you can remember the times where we were in our classrooms and dealt with a lot of those issues and we're coming up to the holiday season where these kids have now gotten used to a routine in the schools and the people that they see, and now they're going to go home for the holiday and they're going to deal with that all over again. So yeah, I definitely appreciate that.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, we're going to go back to you, Michelle. And I think as awful as the COVID times were, I try to find a silver lining in everything. I think our society in America has definitely admitted to the fact that mental health, it's a significant concern and we should be paying attention to it.
I don't think that was the case before COVID, certainly when I started teaching, we all got into this profession. So can you really speak to the main factors really that are contributing to the increase in student anxiety, depression, other mental health challenges, and what are DPS members doing to help address these issues?
Michelle Sholder:
I think one of the biggest challenges we see is the use of social media and the use of the internet. So students are wanting to be the influencer or be exactly like the influencer that they see. Rarely is that attainable. And the influencer is only showing 5% of their day.
You're not seeing the bad things, and the students don't realize that. And so when their life is not 100% perfect, they don't know how to deal with it. They don't have the skills or the strategies to deal with frustration and the patience to work for something that they really, really want.
Aaron Chapin:
So what are DPS members doing to help combat that?
Michelle Sholder:
So we're, in social work, we're running a lot of groups and we are teaching interpersonal skills and we're teaching frustration tolerance and we're teaching perseverance and team building. And it's really fun to teach team building because I get to take kids outside and play tag, and we get to do minute to win it games and do the really fun stuff to get them excited to be together. So I mean, that's a highlight of my day because I really like to do that stuff.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah, I didn't. Now, Aaron, going back to when we were in school, I mean, you always thought about being a sports star or something like that. Now with the internet, the way they have with the social media influencers, I mean, that's just the way things go. So Adam, pigging-back on that this has got to be affecting our students' mental needs very, very much. Are there some skills or some strategies that you implement that you see that work well to deal with some of those things?
Adam Oldham:
Skills and strategies. Like Michelle said, a lot of frustration,= tolerance, executive functioning skills like organization, the ability to persist through something you don't really want to do. The ability to set goals and create some actionable steps from here to accomplishing them. Things that are often pretty deal-withable for most students. Now for some, that really manifests as a lot of anxiety or a lack of motivation and depression and hopelessness.
But a lot of those conversations I have with kids are 15, 20 minutes and, "Oh, okay. I think I have an understanding of what I need to do." They go back to class and it works out okay. And so as far as what I believe schools can do to address this on a big scale is to just have certified student services people like us. It's easy to have that 15, 20 minute conversation with a school counselor if you've got a school counselor.
If not, that then falls back on the classroom teacher. And some of the things I'm spending 15, 20 minutes doing with kids are things like deescalation when they're really amped up. And if you're in a classroom with 25 other kids, it's hard for the teacher to pause everything, deescalate and then get back on task. When you have people like me or Michelle, that student can leave the space, recollect themselves, decompress, get back on track, and then get back to classroom to learn.
Jeff Ney:
So I mean, Aaron and I could probably give stories about students who we've did a lesson somehow and we were really happy with how that child transformed during that time with us. How about you, without giving obviously the students names, but are there any success stories that something happened that you were able to allow a student to get from point A to point B to be more successful at their school?
Adam Oldham:
Yeah. I mean, there are a couple of things. So we, for a long time we utilized a behavior screening tool to help determine if students were experiencing distress and we would administer that to all of our students. And if students came up at higher levels of distress, we would meet with them and talk about their problems. And the tool we used identified some specific areas where a student might be experiencing distress.
And for one student there was some experience of depression coming up and also some experiences of ostracism. When I met with the student and talked about what that meant, hearing him say, "I have been isolating from my friends, had ostracism because I haven't been sleeping well and I don't know how to talk about that and it makes me really sad." And these sleep issues have actually been a problem for a long time. And so we connected with the family and we got them into a doctor. They did a sleep study, got a sleep apnea machine, and it really transformed the kid's life.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow.
Adam Oldham:
And it went from, "I guess my friends just don't like me," to, "Oh my goodness, I might have an actual underlying medical issue." And it transformed the way the child perceived themselves and the problem and really helped kind of transform the way they were going to move forward in their lives.
Jeff Ney:
That's amazing.
Adam Oldham:
And so that's why screening and getting to know kids and helping kids make meaning of their experiences is so important because so many of our kids, I think get stuck and they say, "I just can't." And then that becomes almost a piece of identity for them. Like, "Oh, I just can't, I'm not good at math, I'm not good at this." When really a 20-minute developmental conversation can really help change the trajectory of their lives.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. It's funny, throughout the years of learning of education, we always try to come up with the silver bullet that is able to fix everybody, but you can't. You got to be able to sit down, you got to talk to the student, you got to figure out what's causing this stuff to happen so you can move forward.
So Michelle, when Aaron was talking and the fact that you are our DPS president and you have that wide range of different groups that fall under the umbrella of DPS, is there anything that you do to allow all those different groups to kind of collaborate with each other between the different services like counseling and nursing and social work to address the students' needs that you see?
Michelle Sholder:
So we've actually talked about this a lot within the DPS executive group and we have a group text going on that is just threads and threads and threads, and we all agree that the interest of the student is our number one priority. And that was the easy part. And after a lot of deliberation, we realized when we map out who is responsible for what parts, we actually all work really well together.
So a social worker, a school counselor and a school psychologist can all provide individual therapy. However, we don't all have time to do individual therapy. So then when we say, "All right, so you are responsible for this, you've got this, you've got this, go team," and then we build each other up. We're not competing, we're not overlapping, we're not stepping on toes.
So it was really the role delineation between what the school nurse is responsible for as far as they are so much more than height and weight and they give out so many community resources and they are a wealth of knowledge. But when they know that the school social worker, if they are blessed to have one, and I wish every district did, is also available to give out the community resources, then they can focus on seeing the scraped knees and giving out the medications they need.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. Look, we talk a lot about the teacher shortage. We talk a lot about support professional shortage. But again, when we talk about our professional shortage, it's not just about the teachers, it's also about all of these areas that DPS represents. We've got significant shortages and need to address quickly. Because you're absolutely right, Michelle, we need these positions to be filled in these schools.
Michelle Sholder:
Yes.
Aaron Chapin:
Our kids are desperately in need. And so Adam, we talked a little bit about the different roles of DPS working together, but I'm hoping you can maybe talk a little bit about the relationships that the teachers and parents and other staff have to really develop in order to address student wellness. Can you talk about how these different relationships, they can all come together?
Adam Oldham:
Yeah. It really comes down to understanding what the roles are and what tools are available to teachers, to parents, to students. A lot of times kids don't know what's accessible to them. There often we'll say things like, "I didn't know that my school did that." And so a big part of making sure student services exist in school districts is communicating that information out to families so that they know what's available.
And so a lot of that's communication. A lot of that is making sure internally our systems make sense. And so making sure people know that school counselors are kind of that primary care, your school nurses are that primary entry point for care. And if we need additional support or more specific solutions to learning needs or behavior needs or maybe resource needs, we can work our way up through these systems to connect with a school social worker or a school psychologist so that it isn't, "I don't know, what do we do?
How do we help this kid? I don't know." Well, here at this school district, here is how our supports all fit together and work together and this is where you can start and this is where you can go next if this didn't work. And so really making sure the system is organized and making sure we communicate that effectively with families and also take feedback from those families and students as we're working with them.
Aaron Chapin:
Beautiful.
Jeff Ney:
It's amazing. I mean, me, I'm a math and science teacher, so when I do my professional development to make myself better, I'm looking up that math and science stuff. And not too much of that stuff has changed, but my goodness, Michelle, the way to care for a student has had to change so much over a very brief period of time.
For our DPS listeners that are out there, could you suggest what kind of professional development opportunities might be available for those members and how that ongoing training is going to help address and hopefully solve the needs of other students in our buildings?
Michelle Sholder:
So we have quite a few things listed in PEARL, PSEA's online training system. There are some live sessions, there's some book studies, there's some webinars. Those are really good sources of training. And then our DPS conference, we are finally back in person next year. I'm so excited.
Aaron Chapin:
Excellent.
Michelle Sholder:
We are going to be in the state college Boalsburg area.
Jeff Ney:
Oh.
Michelle Sholder:
Registration will be in May. And then the conference is August fourth and fifth.
Aaron Chapin:
And you had a conference just last week, right? Wasn't there an online professional learning session?
Michelle Sholder:
There was an online professional learning, yes. There was a live session last week about happiness and engaging your happiness muscles.
Jeff Ney:
Aaron, you should probably have taken that one.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, I did say hello to everybody. I had a packed schedule, so I was not able to stick. I should have. If I had known.
Jeff Ney:
You should have.
Aaron Chapin:
Geez. Adam, so we've got listeners out there that are obviously educators and support staff. So obviously we all as educators and support staff, we come in contact with students that are struggling. They've got these complex issues like trauma and family instability. What advice could you give to these educators and support staff when it comes to helping our students that might be going through these issues?
Adam Oldham:
So I'd say the first thing that we need instead of advice would be more certified student services professionals.
Jeff Ney:
Oh, good point.
Adam Oldham:
We ask our teachers to do an awful lot. And I think the expectation that a classroom teacher has to deal with complex trauma, has to deal with family instability, it's totally unfair and it's contributing to the burnout and the workforce issues.
And so I think better than advice is we need better systems and we need to make sure that our schools have adequate staff and that the support staff and the resources we have are well organized and efficient. So that's the first thing I'd say. But to actually answer your question and not be glib about it.
Aaron Chapin:
No. No. I'm pretty sure you told the governor that last year.
Adam Oldham:
I did. I did. And we have more money now. This is the first time in a long time we can say there actually is money on the table that school districts can utilize for student services people and programs. And so that's great.
Aaron Chapin:
And just to fill everybody in, Adam, you joined myself, it was at the budget address last year, the governor's budget address, and you had an opportunity, what did you have? You had a minute or a couple minutes with Governor Shapiro?
Adam Oldham:
Yeah. And he's a supportive governor. He's put a lot of emphasis on education, student mental health and wellness. And we appreciate that support and we look forward to that advocacy this next budget cycle as we are ramping up to do that.
Aaron Chapin:
Go ahead. Feel free to go on though, but don't feel like that was glib at all. That spot on. You're actually a hundred percent correct.
Adam Oldham:
Good.
Aaron Chapin:
So keep going.
Adam Oldham:
Excellent. No, you keep preaching to this choir, I'm listening. I would say to teachers and educators in general and even families that are struggling with kids that are struggling, I would say a combination of grace and accountability is really the best medicine. If you're able to extend a deadline, if you're able to exempt a student from an assignment or a class thing that they weren't there for, by all means do that.
But don't just let it go there. Hold them accountable, try to keep standards, give them expectations and help them meet them. I don't think we do anyone any favors by just excusing and dropping expectations entirely. And so create a plan. And I know that takes time and I know that's not always easy. So collaborate with your peers, create a plan for success, and it's up to the kid if they're going to follow through with it. But you can at least say, "I gave them grace, I gave them a chance, and hopefully I got a chance to see them walk through that door and be successful."
Aaron Chapin:
I'm assuming that's the kind of advice you give your colleagues back at Big Spring.
Adam Oldham:
I do my best.
Aaron Chapin:
All right.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. Giving grace is probably a great advice giver for just about everybody out there listening.
Adam Oldham:
Amen.
Aaron Chapin:
And maybe some legislators are listening.
Jeff Ney:
Oh, that would be wonderful.
Aaron Chapin:
We need more staff, please.
Jeff Ney:
We need better funding.
Aaron Chapin:
Yes. And they're trying to make it happen. Last year was a great first step, so.
Jeff Ney:
Yep. Absolutely.
Aaron Chapin:
But, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
Yes, sir.
Aaron Chapin:
It's pop quiz time.
Jeff Ney:
Fantastic. I love pop quiz time. So the question is for both of you. Michelle, I'm going to come to you first. So we have heard, Adam probably just touched on it a little bit already. It takes a village, we all know it takes a village to help out a child. So obviously you guys can't do everything.
The regular classroom teacher can't do everything for these kids' wellbeing. So if you could give an in-classroom teacher who deals with those students probably a little bit longer than either of you do in your roles with probably the caseloads that you guys carry, what would be that one piece of advice that you would give to that classroom teacher to help with the students' mental health as well as their wellbeing?
Michelle Sholder:
I would tell that teacher to have some empathy for themselves as well as for each of their students. Because if we approach any of our problems with empathy and grace, then we are going to have a better outcome regardless of what the outcome is. If we have connections and we are making those one-on-one connections with students and building the relationship. And I know no classroom teacher wants to hear, "Well, build a relationship." I get it. I get it from the standpoint of you've got 25 kids in your class.
Aaron Chapin:
Right.
Michelle Sholder:
However the ones that you need to really put on the priority list. Get those real high-flyers, make that eye contact with them across the room. Be like, "I see you," and a little empathy and grace and build a team within your room and get them to work for each other.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. And I'm going to come to Adam in a second, but I agree with that wholeheartedly because a lot of times if the other students see the way that the educator is reacting to the student, it kind of helps everybody out.
Michelle Sholder:
Yes.
Jeff Ney:
So you already started with giving grace and maybe extend some timelines and stuff like that. Anything else?
Adam Oldham:
Well, not so much at the individual classroom teacher level. I think from a systems level, a book I would recommend everybody read is The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt. If you haven't read that, it talks a lot about this technology rewiring our students have grown up through in their adolescence, and it gives us some policy recommendations.
I think as far as the technology concerns go, I think we really need to start exploring the presence of cell phones in schools. And I really think we need to do more in providing students opportunities for free play, some unstructured time, safe time, but unstructured time for them to be able to grow and develop as human beings grow and develop.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow, that's fantastic. You heard it from the experts, everybody. Have a little empathy. Get that book, Anxious Generation. Right, Adam?
Jeff Ney:
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Chapin:
Go get it. So let's do it. Let's help our students out. Unfortunately, that does it for our time today. Our guests have been Michelle Shoulder and Adam Oldham. Thank you both for joining us and sharing your insights, but even more, thank you just for the humans that you are and everything you do for our school districts. Thank you very much, Michelle.
Michelle Sholder:
Thank you so much.
Aaron Chapin:
Thank you, Adam.
Michelle Sholder:
Thanks for having us.
Aaron Chapin:
It's great to see you both. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We really appreciate that. Do you have some feedback for us? Want some advice from Rachel?
Jeff Ney:
Come on.
Aaron Chapin:
Maybe we'll pass it on to Michelle and Adam.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah, that'd probably be a good idea.
Aaron Chapin:
They'd give some good advice. Probably better than the three of us can, but you got to send those emails to podcast at psea.org. I am Aaron Chapin.
Jeff Ney:
And I'm Jeff Ney.
Aaron Chapin:
And you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more. And don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.