Want to stand up for your students and schools but aren't sure where to start? PSEA’s Beth Zampogna joins members Shanna Danielson and Jason Stern to talk about PSEA's Education Defenders program and the small steps that make a big difference. Sign up at psea.org/defender.
Want to stand up for your students and schools but aren't sure where to start? PSEA’s Beth Zampogna joins members Shanna Danielson and Jason Stern to talk about PSEA's Education Defenders program and the small steps that make a big difference. Sign up at psea.org/defender.
Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you. From cutting edge classroom strategies to though-provoking policy discussions, if it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President Aaron Chapin. I'm riding solo today. It's all me hosting by myself. Everybody is super busy driving around. It's a busy time of year. Hey, we have great guests today and you all can't see, maybe you'll see it on the thumbnail that's on this podcast, but everybody's got a... They're wearing orange today. And that's because September 30th is the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. It's also known as Orange Shirt Day. I got a sweatshirt on. It's a day to honor the Indigenous children that were taken away through the residential school system. And we put that school in quotation marks because it was not a school as many of you know. And it's also, they were taken away from their families and communities.
It's a day to raise awareness of the horrific experiences many Indigenous people had in the residential schools, as well as the legacy of the system. And it's a moment for us to recognize not only historic harms that happened due to these schools, but also the intergenerational impacts and ongoing violence of Indigenous communities, what they continue to face today. So again, today's September 30th. This is getting released on a different day. But I just wanted you all to be aware of what's going on. And the four of us that are on this podcast today are recognizing that. So I appreciate that little bit of time.
Today's podcast, as I've talked about, we through the month of September and October have been really drilling down on some really important work when it comes to informing about Project 2025. We've talked about the advocacy work that's taking place in Western Pennsylvania. We talked about mail-in voting, which is super important in today's society. We talked about advocacy work that's taking place in the eastern part of Pennsylvania. And besides today's episode, we've got some episodes where we're going to be talking about the harmful effects that we're going to be seeing starting in 2027 when SNAP benefits and Medicaid start to get cut. We're going to be talking about... Oh, we got a really good episode coming up getting recorded soon, it may even air before this one. But we're going to talk about federal issues due to Project 2025. And another great episode where we are talking about the effects that other states are really feeling due to the attacks on public education. It's very important this time of year in September and October as we get closer to certain things in the fall.
So today we're going to be talking with, something that is really important because we know Pennsylvanians want leaders that are going to strengthen our public schools, not ones that are going to dismantle them. And it's a pretty simple concept if you ask me. But yet we constantly at PSEA and all of our school districts, we find ourselves having to defend our schools and our students against those who are trying to push anti-public education agendas that are going to shortchange students and educators alike. It's just ridiculous. So what we've got that we've started a while ago and you'll hear a lot about it's one of our answers to this. It's a new advocacy program called Education Defenders. It's been designed to empower members to speak up for their students, their schools, and the great profession that we're part of, and really just to give them some tools to fight back.
So let's get to our guests. To talk about what it takes to be an effective advocate as part of this Education Defender program, we got three great guests. We've got Beth Zampogna. Oh my goodness. Beth Zampogna is a member of PSEA's Government Relations staff. She's one of the leaders of this Education Defender program.
Beth, welcome to the podcast.
Beth Zampogna:
Thank you for having me, Aaron.
Aaron Chapin:
Did you ever think you were going to get put on?
Beth Zampogna:
I did not. I kept waiting for my turn and I am so excited.
Aaron Chapin:
Why didn't you think you're going to make it on?
Beth Zampogna:
Sometimes I might be a little blunt, I guess, or something along those lines, I'm not sure.
Aaron Chapin:
I've never witnessed that.
Beth Zampogna:
But I'm very excited to be here.
Aaron Chapin:
We are thrilled, and that means there's only one member of GR left.
Beth Zampogna:
Oh yeah. We'll make sure the whole team is here.
Aaron Chapin:
All right. Well, welcome to the podcast. We also have two Education Defenders. We've got Shanna Danielson and Jason Stern. Shanna is a middle school music teacher and a member of the Bermudian Springs Education Association. She serves as PSEA's Southern Region PACE Director, and in 2020, she ran for State Senate.
How you doing, Shanna?
Shanna Danielson:
I am glad to be here. Thank you.
Aaron Chapin:
We also have Jason. Jason is a social studies teacher and member of the Saucon Valley Education Association. Jason is very active in every kind of election from school board to statewide races. He's attended PSEA's Political Institute. He canvases, makes calls for campaigns, and he currently serves as one of PSEA's member political organizers.
So hey, Jason, how you doing?
Jason Stern:
I'm doing fantastic. How's it going there?
Aaron Chapin:
It's going great. Did you have a good day at school today?
Jason Stern:
Oh, every day's a good day in middle school-
Aaron Chapin:
That's what I'd like to hear. Excellent, excellent.
Jason Stern:
That's what we tell each other. That's what we tell each other.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, I welcome you all to Duty Free Lunch today. Beth, we're going to get started with you today.
Beth Zampogna:
Okay, great.
Aaron Chapin:
Ready for this question?
Beth Zampogna:
Sure.
Aaron Chapin:
Hey, how about you give us a brief breakdown of the Education Defender program for those members that are listening, or maybe the public, if they're unfamiliar with this program?
Beth Zampogna:
Sure. Happy to do that. Just a quick sort of broad overview is this is a program that we launched... Well, you helped launch it last May, 2025 May Day, as part of our continued effort to increase member advocacy, PSEA member advocacy. And this particular program is designed to be tailored to what the needs of our members are. So if they are saying, "I need to learn a little bit more about skill sets like maybe canvassing or doing some other things," we want to be there to support them. We also provide them with specific information around opportunities that exist in their local area, their statewide area to learn more, get engaged, and really stand up for the values that we all care so much about, like respect and dignity for all educators and for all children and funding, et cetera.
And so we, at the staff level, do a lot to try and make sure that we're providing members the services and supports that they need to feel good about doing this work. And we're proud to say that we've grown from zero on May 1, 2025 to over 2,000 Defenders across Pennsylvania.
Aaron Chapin:
I forgot that this program started well before the reconciliation bill.
Beth Zampogna:
Oh, yes. Yes.
Aaron Chapin:
This was a way just to get our members involved at the earliest part of this new presidential administration and to fight back for our schools in Pennsylvania.
Beth Zampogna:
Yes.
Aaron Chapin:
And we've really come a long way, haven't we?
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah, we really have. People have been doing excellent work.
Aaron Chapin:
So Shanna, can you tell us a bit more about your experiences and what you see as the connectors for what happens in our public schools with politics?
Shanna Danielson:
Yeah, sure. I, as a young teacher, remember watching the CNN headlines of Sandy Hook, and from that moment in my third year teaching, constantly feeling like there has to be a way to, yes, be excellent in my class and my school, but to be able to do more to help protect our kids and work for our community. So that stayed with me for a while. In 2018, I actually ran for State House in a district that I knew I wouldn't win, but it felt like the right thing to do, and that led me to run for State Senate in 2020, which changed my life. My speech every time was like, "I know I can do good work in my classroom, but there are limits to what I can do for everybody's kids and every teacher who deserves to have somebody who has their back. We need more educators in the halls of power."
And so that was a really transformative experience. Unfortunately, I did not win, and I am not sitting in the Capitol today. However, that really kind of jump started my leadership journey with PSEA. I'm now co-president of my local, as you mentioned, I'm Southern Region PACE chair, and that role is an incredible opportunity to get to share my experience and talk with other people who want to do this too, help our members find ways to get those pro-public education people in the rooms where they can actually make a difference.
Ed Defenders is incredible because there's so many different ways that you can get involved and you can kind of choose your own adventure based on your comfort level. But it's a really good first step for people who don't know what to do.
Aaron Chapin:
I like what you said about educators make the best legislators. It's absolutely true, don't you think?
Shanna Danielson:
Yes.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. What do you think about a teacher makes a good legislator, real quick?
Shanna Danielson:
I mean, we're used to managing chaos. And not only are we good at managing chaos, but we're used to finding different ways and creative ways to solve problems.
Aaron Chapin:
Love it.
Shanna Danielson:
And if you can take attendance during a fire drill when you have a class of 70 kids with instruments in their hands, you can do literally anything.
Aaron Chapin:
Yes. See, those of you listening, you heard her. Run for office, everybody. Let's go. Next election, let's get out there. Shanna, let's stay with you real quick. So you mentioned what roles you have in the union. Again, you're PSCA Southern Region PACE director, so you help your members understand the role of political action in our union. So for a member who thinks, "Well, politics isn't my thing," and we hear that a lot, how can you explain why it does matter to their careers, to their classrooms?
Shanna Danielson:
Well, politics may not be your thing, and it certainly does not have to become your entire personality. You don't have to be like me. I totally get that. But it impacts your job and your life and your community, whether you want to be knowledgeable about it or not. Personally, I would rather see something coming than be caught off guard. We have a responsibility to be informed and Defenders kind of gives you that information, and like I said, numerous points of entry and degrees of engagement. So you don't have to make yourself super uncomfortable immediately, but taking that first step will help you feel more confident to take another step that might have a greater impact. The political system doesn't care if it's your thing or not. It's going to do what it's going to do. The best offense is a good defense, but also... Sports. I don't know how to make this into a music analogy. You can do so much more when you know what's coming-
Beth Zampogna:
Part of the Broadway show.
Shanna Danielson:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
Sports. It's the first time anybody's ever said sports on our podcast before. Nice job, Shanna.
Jason, let's go to you, Jason Stern. So you've been involved in supporting pro-public education candidates from the local school board races to statewide campaigns. So what first got you engaged and what keeps you coming back, Jason?
Jason Stern:
All right. Well, to be honest, it took me a long time to get involved with my local. I think I had excuses like everybody else, chasing my own kids around, stack of papers and things like that. And the union, I always knew it was there, but it seemed a little mysterious to me, wasn't quite sure what was involved with it. But then I had a friend say, "Oh, there's an open position on rep council for legislative chair." Very minor commitment, which is I think how we're all lured into the union work at first, just a minor commitment. So I was able to do that.
When I was legislative chair, the president asked me if I would be willing to try to recruit some pro-education candidates for the local school board. And so made a few phone calls, talked to some people, had a bunch of sit downs and some various meetings, and now about five years later, we have successfully gotten six PACE endorsed candidates elected to our local school board-
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome.
Jason Stern:
... and they are serving now, and we are very happy that our school board has become much more pro-education friendly and has been doing a very good job as of late. So that's sort of what got me involved. It was a little bit here, a little bit there, and then all of a sudden I'm making phone calls and knocking on doors and doing all that sort of election work. As far as what keeps me coming back is that I've seen that the process, it works. I've seen the power of the PACE endorsement and the organization that PACE offers to help get local candidates elected. It is very, very powerful and it's something I would hope all districts would put to use.
I have also seen though that if you want change, you have to come back. You have to come back and stay on it because as soon as you let your foot off the gas-
Aaron Chapin:
Absolutely true.
Jason Stern:
... it goes away. And finally, why do I keep coming back to it? I like it. I enjoy it. I know. I didn't know if I wanted to admit that here on the air.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh, this is exactly the group you want to admit it to.
Jason Stern:
But it is. It's a challenge. I mean, that doesn't mean it's easy. It's very tough at times. But it is a challenge. And if you're working with the right people and have the right group around you, it can be very rewarding. And-
Aaron Chapin:
So... Yeah, go ahead.
Jason Stern:
Yeah?
Aaron Chapin:
No, go ahead. Finish up.
Jason Stern:
I was just going to say, change comes but it comes slow. So you have to stick at it. It's not like there's all of a sudden one aha moment where everything changed from darkness to light. You have to keep coming back at it for change to occur.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. I really appreciate the fact that you said, "And you got to keep working at it," because one time doesn't just change everything for good. You got to keep coming back at it, going at it. Unfortunately, there are some examples of where some locals, they say, "Hey, we did what we needed to do, and then that's it." No, unfortunately, you got to keep coming back.
Jason, we hear that you've canvassed, you make phone calls, you attended the political institute, which is great, and now you work as a member political organizer. So what has the path taught you, maybe you got a little bit more of, what you would say to a member who's never knocked on a door or maybe made a phone call for a candidate? What would you say to them?
Jason Stern:
Well, I think I'd be honest. I'd say yes, it can be a little intimidating. It can be a little intimidating to get out there and knock on a door or make some phone calls. But what you do every day, getting up in front of a classroom is way more intimidating than going out and knocking on the doors.
Aaron Chapin:
Absolutely right.
Jason Stern:
So I'll tell you a quick story. My first door I ever, ever knocked on, it was at the Political Institute. We were out there, we went out in groups. First door I knocked on, we were talking about public education and the gentleman said, "I believe all schools should be private and that we should abolish public education." That was my first door.
Aaron Chapin:
Nice.
Jason Stern:
And I thought to myself, "Are they going to all be like this?" He was very polite, but that was my first door. So I thought it can only go up from here, and it has. Most of the people when they answer the door are polite. If they don't want to talk to you, they just say, "No, thank you." Most have been very, very welcoming and listening to our message, and the few who have not been make good stories for me to tell my family at night.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. Well, look, even myself, I went out two years ago. I went out to go canvas a week before October was over, and it's not easy for me. I still struggle with it at times, especially when you go by yourself, but it can be a little daunting to go to a random house. But I think the good advice is most people are not, most, the majority, Beth, are not mean and nasty.
Beth Zampogna:
Oh, no. Yeah.
Jason Stern:
No. And I would say-
Beth Zampogna:
I think with... Oh, go ahead, Jason. Go ahead.
Jason Stern:
I was going to say, my suggestion would be go out with someone the first time.
Aaron Chapin:
Yes, that's what I was about to mention. Absolutely.
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah.
Jason Stern:
It's more fun and you can get much more comfortable. You just stand there and listen to what's being said and sort of get the vibe of it. But if anyone want to do it, I would highly suggest you go out for an hour with somebody, knock on a few doors and just get a little experience under your belt.
Aaron Chapin:
Great advice. So Beth, let's go to you.
Beth Zampogna:
Okay.
Aaron Chapin:
You ready?
Beth Zampogna:
Sure.
Aaron Chapin:
So PSEA has a strong history. You know this. You've been around here for awhile.
Beth Zampogna:
Be around.
Aaron Chapin:
Be here for a while. We've got a strong history of member advocacy. And what does the Education Defender program add maybe that we didn't really have before? And how does it connect members with the actions and updates that really matter the most?
Beth Zampogna:
Well, good question. And I think some of it was already... I want to give props to Shanna and Jason for basically stating a lot of the pieces. So getting that early information, having a network of people who, if you're all feeling uncomfortable together, that's at least a little bit better. If you're going to be provided supports by staff for getting out and doing canvassing or other kind of activities, it's a little bit outside your comfort zone, but the bottom line is we're doing it to advocate for public education, and that's the most important thing. So really appreciate their input.
And I would say this, that absolutely in my years here with PSEA, and I'm thinking we've had maybe one or two podcasts probably on programs like our advocates for children in education, right? Jen Statler and Government Relations does an awesome job supporting the ACE network. And so this particular program I say is very much additive. So we know we have a lot of ACEs who are also Education Defenders, but there are people who have different areas of focus or different levels of comfort. And in my mind in talking with Jen, it's also... So the ACEs are wonderful and they build their skillset to build relationships with policymakers, and they do what they can to educate them and influence them and inspire them to hopefully have good proactive policies put in place, particularly at the state level, potentially the federal level.
What Education Defenders, I think, really focus on is creating the conditions for those conversations and those relationships to take place. And so if you have conditions like we have here in Pennsylvania where we have an amazing pro-public education champion, Governor Shapiro, we have our pro-public education House, State House majority, and we're moving towards a constitutional system of funding our schools.
Aaron Chapin:
That's right.
Beth Zampogna:
That's amazing. What we have in Washington DC is the opposite, and so those conditions need to change. And so Education Defenders, my thinking is they're doing the hard work now to ideally change those conditions so that when we come back into a legislative session at the federal level in 2027, we got some new players, we have some new people who are very much pro-public education. So I think there's that kind of they all have their space and place, but it's a little bit different type of focus.
Aaron Chapin:
I would say we've also done a lot more educating and bringing speakers to this group of our members. We've had every other month or so, we've had some really informative speakers, whether it be our staff, but we've had a lot of people from the outside just bringing in information and educating everyone.
Beth Zampogna:
Yes. Yeah. And I do want to give a shout out too to the amazing region field staff, our region advocacy coordinators, but everybody, because that's really where I think our Education Defenders get so much contact and information. We do our best at the statewide level and we have our Defender newsletter that goes out and we have the website and we have monthly guests and webinars, et cetera. But really, once you're in the network, you're points of contact and you get so many different unique opportunities to learn more.
Aaron Chapin:
And they've been doing it different in every region.
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit-
Aaron Chapin:
It's based on the culture that's there. So everybody's doing something a little bit different.
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
Let's stick with you, Beth. Ed Defenders and PSEA, we've been educating people about Project 2025. I know. We all take a deep breath when we have to say it. When we talk about Project 2025, what's really at stake for our students and educators in Pennsylvania? I know.
Beth Zampogna:
I know. Here I go. I was being good and not saying too much.
Aaron Chapin:
That's all right. It might get edited in some [inaudible 00:22:44]-
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah. So from my perspective for Project 2025, I think... Well, kudos to everybody in PSEA, including, I'm looking at our communication staff, a lot of education about very specific, all of the specific threats, policy threats. But I think it's really important that we all recognize Project 2025 is not just a 900 plus page playbook of terrible policies that are specifically designed to harm public education and collective bargaining. It really is the latest iteration of an ecosystem of, if you will, billionaire think tanks and political funding, media efforts that are pushing away from the values that we all believe in and care about. So that respect and dignity for all educators and support professionals, for the students we serve, believing that resources should not serve as a barrier, but in fact should offer equitable opportunities for students. This is the complete opposite of that. And it's important that I think we recognize the mechanisms involved and engaged in that.
And the reality too, that Project 2025 is, I hate to say it, but it is a well-thought-out playbook and very detailed policies and over 50% of those policies have sort of moved ahead. And even just today, I think we sent a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services-
Aaron Chapin:
Yes, we did. Yes, we did.
Beth Zampogna:
... on no thank you very much on newer regulations to try and eliminate Head Start.
Aaron Chapin:
Which we all know is one of the most important building blocks of public education.
Beth Zampogna:
Exactly. Exactly.
Aaron Chapin:
You know what? Y spoke very well considering how passionate you are about this.
Beth Zampogna:
I know. No swearing or anything.
Aaron Chapin:
You did a great job because I've heard you in meetings talking about this. So Shanna and Jason, I'm going to come to you. I'd love for each of you to share a moment when taking action at the local or state level with other member advocates has really made a difference. Jason, let's start with you. Can you maybe give us a quick instance?
Jason Stern:
Sure. I was thinking about this and, I said change is flow, so I don't know if I have an aha exact moment. But this past year we were having the beginning of the school year and the climate and the morale at the beginning of the year seemed to be a lot better than it had been in the past. And I did have a teacher come up to me and say, "This is due to a lot of the work you have done and PACE has done with our local elections and our local school board."
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome.
Jason Stern:
So I think sometimes it's hard for me to see it because I'm sort of in the middle of it all. So it was good to get that perspective that it is being noticed and that certainly was appreciated at the time.
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome.
Jason Stern:
Yeah. That was [inaudible 00:25:44]-
Aaron Chapin:
That's more of the cumulative effect. It's not necessarily one specific thing that sparked. But, I love that example. What about you, Shanna? You got a specific moment?
Shanna Danielson:
I think mine might be cumulative too. We do, in the Southern Region, an election kickoff event in even number election years. We just had ours a few weeks ago and you can see... Well, no, you can't. It's all blurry. Our Southern Region staff made this incredible graphic with all of our recommended candidates on it, and there are 24 of them.
Aaron Chapin:
That's amazing.
Shanna Danielson:
And that is the most that we've had in Southern Region and that any of us can ever remember. And so I'm standing in that room a few weeks ago and I'm seeing all these incredible people who are so passionate about our schools and we invited candidates and we invited members and it was like this room just buzzing with this positive energy. And it just felt incredible to see years of our hard work paying off and a way for just our regular everyday members to be able to have a hand in making that change, getting the right people in those halls of power to do things like restore all the cuts to education funding that we... I mean the fixes in the budgets the last few years alone are just remarkable. And that's because we have more of the right people in the right places who are able to make those things happen for us. And it was a pretty magical feeling.
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome. It's true. Southern Region has come a long way and I believe it's a true team effect that has really happened over the last, my time being on the board of directors. I've been around for 11 years. It's been a real team effort between staff and governance working together. I was just hanging out with them a couple of weeks ago at an event and it was great because everybody was just laughing together. But there's a passion for wanting to bring that change. Would you agree, Shanna?
Shanna Danielson:
Absolutely.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. So kudos to the southern region. Look, we're way over time, so I'm going to drop to our... I know it's my fault. It's what happens when I'm left alone in here. I'm going to drop to the last question then. So it's going to go all three of you. So if we've got... Well, we do have members listening. We actually have an audience, Beth.
Beth Zampogna:
Cool.
Aaron Chapin:
I heard about it today. It's growing by the weeks.
Beth Zampogna:
Awesome.
Aaron Chapin:
So this question goes to all three of you, if there's a member listening today that wants to just take one small step to become a defender of public education, what should it be? Jason, what would you do? Quick advice to them.
Jason Stern:
I'm going to stick on the local level because that's where I see a lot of change being made. I would say go to a school board meeting. Just the fact that the school board members see a PSEA member there-
Aaron Chapin:
Beautiful.
Jason Stern:
... that makes a difference, it really does, in what they're thinking about, in what they're doing. Sometimes they're so involved in budgets and numbers, they need to be reminded that there's teachers that are there. And even if you don't say anything, don't do anything, just being present, I think makes a difference.
Aaron Chapin:
That's great advice. And it doesn't even have to be election time. In fact, it shouldn't be because it should be all year long. So that's great advice, Jason. Got that locals? Great advice.
What about you, Shanna? What's one piece of advice?
Shanna Danielson:
I would say stop thinking you have to be an expert in everything to be able to talk to people who are elected officials because you know more than they do about this. You are an expert. And that's not to be insulting them, but you do this every day. So just sign up, take that first step and go in and be confident that you know what you're talking about and we need your voice.
Aaron Chapin:
That's great advice. We mentioned this from time to time, especially when we do the advocacy days in June. We talk about that, Beth. Just go in there. It's exactly right, Shanna. You are the experts in public education because they got to know a lot about a lot of things and they don't really know a lot. It's just a little bit on a lot of things. You got to get in there and educate.
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah. And you also have support.
Aaron Chapin:
That's right.
Beth Zampogna:
You will always have support. We want to help everybody feel more and more comfortable, and that's the role of staff for sure.
Aaron Chapin:
What about you?
Beth Zampogna:
And I have to put a plug in for psea.org/defender, go there and sign up to become an Education Defender. Wear your Education Defender T-shirt that you'll get to the school board meeting. That's always a nice plug. And I think that's exactly it. It's about elevating voices and recognizing that we do have power and we do have knowledge and we're there for the right reasons and we'll do it working together. And we actually have pretty amazing supports behind us as well.
Aaron Chapin:
You got a small step? What would you say?
Beth Zampogna:
Small step would be sign up, psea.org/defender.
Aaron Chapin:
Just sign up.
Beth Zampogna:
Yes. But also, side note, the other thing might be sometimes we can get super overwhelmed. I don't know about you guys, but you read the news, it's like chaos everywhere. It's very difficult. Maybe for people who are struggling a little bit, just kind of ask yourself, "What is it that I want to see in my future and does this policy or the people behind it align with that?" And if they don't, come join us.
Aaron Chapin:
Awesome. Well, that brings us well to the end of today's episode. We've had three great guests with us today. I've been really fortunate to have the three of you here. Shanna Danielson, thank you very much.
Shanna Danielson:
Thank you.
Aaron Chapin:
Jason Stern, it's nice to meet you and thank you for everything you do.
Jason Stern:
Thank you very much. Nice to be here.
Aaron Chapin:
You got it. And, Beth Zampogna.
Beth Zampogna:
Aaron.
Aaron Chapin:
You've got a great podcast voice.
Beth Zampogna:
Well, thank you very much.
Aaron Chapin:
You should be in the studio maybe with me more often. Would that be wonderful?
Beth Zampogna:
Bring me in on Project 2025 anytime.
Aaron Chapin:
Did you have fun? Did you have fun?
Beth Zampogna:
I did. I had a good time. Thank you.
Aaron Chapin:
Thanks for joining us.
Beth Zampogna:
Yeah, thanks.
Aaron Chapin:
And thanks to all our listeners for tuning in. If you'd like to learn more about the Education Defenders program, you heard Beth, all you got to do is go to psea.org/defender.
Beth Zampogna:
Defender.
Aaron Chapin:
If you got feedback or ideas for future episodes, or maybe you want to brag about how well-behaved Beth was on this podcast, you could just write us at podcast@psea.org and in the subject put BZ did great. Come on, do it. I'm Aaron Chapin and you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more, and don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.