Aaron continues his special spring farewell series with a double feature starring outgoing board members Rosetta Dufalla and Cheryl Mattern, two leaders whose combined decades of service have made a lasting mark on PSEA and public education in Pennsylvania. Rosetta shares how her background in retail management gave her a unique window into both sides of the labor relationship. Cheryl opens up about how being a school nurse shaped her eye for the members who often get overlooked. Together, they reveal the reality of PSEA board work and share advice for the next generation of PSEA leaders.
Aaron continues his special spring farewell series with a double feature starring outgoing board members Rosetta Dufalla and Cheryl Mattern, two leaders whose combined decades of service have made a lasting mark on PSEA and public education in Pennsylvania. Rosetta shares how her background in retail management gave her a unique window into both sides of the labor relationship. Cheryl opens up about how being a school nurse shaped her eye for the members who often get overlooked. Together, they reveal the reality of PSEA board work and share advice for the next generation of PSEA leaders.
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Learn more and watch for upcoming episodes at psea.org/podcast.
Voiceover (00:02):
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you. From cutting edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions, if it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin (00:23):
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President Aaron Chapin. I'm back in the host chair solo today for another conversation with a couple of our departing board members who have been instrumental in this association for an extremely long period of time. I don't want to give the amount of years because they'll get upset with me. So if you caught the last episode with MCP, Melissa Constantino-Perubin, you'll know that we have no shortage of incredible women at the leadership helm of PSEA. And this episode, I'm going to introduce two more to you all. Here with me today, I've got Rosetta DeFala and Cheryl Mattern. They have a long and storied leadership journey through their locals as not just members, but as also members of the board of directors. With their terms up this year, hard to believe. I want to be able to pick their brains today, share some of their wisdom.
(01:22)
That's right. I said wisdom.
(01:24)
Wisdom. And share that they've gained over the years and hopefully help others who are going to follow in their footsteps. As I said to you in the last episode, PSEA really has benefited from their great leadership and service over the years. They have attended countless meetings on weeknights and weekends. Not to mention all those conferences that have occurred in their regions across the state nationwide. They've been great defenders as well of public education in Pennsylvania, as well as the nation. More importantly, as I said in the previous episode, that's why I wanted them here. I'm going to be selfish. I've scheduled three of these podcasts to be done just me all by myself hosting because they are dear friends to me. So Rosetta, Cheryl, welcome to Duty Free Lunch. Thanks for joining me. Hello, Cheryl.
Cheryl Mattern (02:19):
Hi, Aaron. Thanks for having me.
Aaron Chapin (02:21):
I know you're very excited to be talking about yourself today.
Cheryl Mattern (02:24):
I am absolutely thrilled.
Aaron Chapin (02:26):
Yes. For those of you who know Cheryl, you know this is extremely painful. Rosetta? Not so much. You'd love talking about yourself. Hello, Rosetta.
Rosetta Dufalla (02:37):
Well, apparently you spoke for me, but I'm very happy that you invited me and I'm extremely excited because I'm here with Cheryl and I've known Cheryl for many years.
Aaron Chapin (02:44):
Well, I thought when I was planning that the two of you would be perfect together. Perfect. You're completely opposite, but you got a lot in common too.
Rosetta Dufalla (02:53):
Or is that because we're like Film and Luis? I like that.
Aaron Chapin (02:57):
It's right. I'm not sure who would be driving the car off the cliff. It doesn't really matter. Okay,
Rosetta Dufalla (03:02):
You know that would be Rosetta.
Aaron Chapin (03:05):
Oh my. It's going to be one of those podcasts, everybody. I'm excited. I can't wait to get started. So let's just get right into this. So both of you have dedicated a lot of years, a lot of years to PSEA leadership, as well as within your locals and nationally. So my first question to both of you is going to be, give a brief rundown of your leadership paths because they're always very unique to those of us that are on the board of directors. Cheryl, give me a brief leadership journey. How'd you get here?
Cheryl Mattern (03:38):
Well, I started being involved with the State School Nurse Association initially and then the National School Nurse Association. But as my local president reached out to me and I was getting more involved in my local, I was a delegate to the House of Delegates. And my very first House of Delegates, Jerry Alexiak was the vice president at the time, and he was running the new delegate orientation, which I dutifully attended
Voiceover (04:03):
Because
Cheryl Mattern (04:03):
I was new. And he was just so laid back and engaging. And I think in that moment, I knew that I wanted to work for this organization. I wanted to work for the members and I wanted to be a bigger part. So as time went on, I got more involved in my local, attended more houses of delegates. Other leaders within the organization apparently saw leadership value in me and encouraged me to run for NEA director. And then I was asked to step into the Southern region vice president role. All
Aaron Chapin (04:37):
Right. Rosetta, when you started this back in the early 1900s, what was it like?
Rosetta Dufalla (04:43):
Well, first of all, I had a carriage that I had to have my driver hook up to the railing, but it's never really one thing. It really is about the opportunity, about the situation. And I'm not any different from any other local leader where something may have happened. I was asked to do the social aspect of my local. And then from there, I moved into grievance and then vice president. And what happens is something happens in your local, something that might be a negative, something where you feel that you have to step up and fight for all the other members. So that's kind of my path. And then when I became president, I was president for about 12 years.
Aaron Chapin (05:37):
Of your local?
Rosetta Dufalla (05:37):
Of my local. And
Aaron Chapin (05:39):
Then during- You want to give your local a shout out?
Rosetta Dufalla (05:41):
Yeah. My local is Hopewell Area Educational Association, a wonderful group of members, a wonderful leadership team. And I also was president of the Beaver County Coordinating Council, and we were very active and we were actually the largest county members of the five counties in our region. But that's kind of my path. I don't think it's anything super special, but I do believe you have a path, you have a vision, there's a purpose, and you have to step up to complete it.
Aaron Chapin (06:18):
Cheryl, what's your local?
Rosetta Dufalla (06:19):
Central
Cheryl Mattern (06:20):
York
Rosetta Dufalla (06:20):
Education Association.
Aaron Chapin (06:22):
You love your local?
Rosetta Dufalla (06:23):
I do love my local.
Aaron Chapin (06:24):
What about you?
Rosetta Dufalla (06:25):
Well, I don't have a local anymore because I'm retired. However, I belong to the retirees, the Beaver County retirees, and I go to all the meetings because I'm still on the board until obviously the end of August.
Aaron Chapin (06:42):
So we're going to go back to you then, Rosetta. So looking back, you kind of mentioned that there was some kind of negative thing going on in your local. Was there a specific moment when you realized that you were a leader, whether you intended to be one or not, was there a specific moment?
Rosetta Dufalla (07:02):
Absolutely. And I can share with you as I know there are people out there who can share this. We had an individual who rearranged the ratings when we had the 2040, 60, 80 ratings. Do you remember the little areas? You might not, Aaron, because you're so young.
Aaron Chapin (07:21):
I am very young.
Rosetta Dufalla (07:22):
But we had an individual, an administrator who crossed the mountain, changed them, which was totally illegal. And I was a new teacher and there were probably 20 to 30 veteran teachers. And it was at that moment that we all had a meeting. Most of them were ready to retire, and they said, "We're not going to put up with this. " We came together, the young teachers, the veteran teachers, we came together, we unified, we filed a grievance, we fought it, and we won. And I think that was the moment of unity. And that was the moment that I'm going to say established a pattern for me that I was not going to let anybody else deter from what is a positive.
Aaron Chapin (08:08):
I did not know that.
Rosetta Dufalla (08:09):
Well, you know it now, Aaron. You
Aaron Chapin (08:10):
Think you would've told me.
Rosetta Dufalla (08:12):
Well, you never
Aaron Chapin (08:12):
Asked. Don't mess around with me. Cheryl, what about you? Was there a moment you realized this is what you were meant to do?
Cheryl Mattern (08:20):
No, not really, because I don't think I ever really imagined myself being in a leader position. I was just many times when I look back over it, from the time where I stepped into the role of president of the Pennsylvania School Nurse Association to my role at my local to running for NEA director, every single time it was someone who said to me, "Would you consider doing this? " And I had to consider it and I thought, well, why not? And a lot of it was for selfish reasons because I'm a person who loves to learn. And the more knowledge I have, I feel the stronger I am in representing my members and also being a better school nurse myself. So I never intended to be here, but I am very grateful and blessed that I am.
Aaron Chapin (09:08):
I don't think there's a lot of us that thought we'd end up being here on the board of directors. Rosetta, did you ever think you're going to be on the board of directors?
Rosetta Dufalla (09:15):
Absolutely not. Yeah,
Aaron Chapin (09:16):
Me neither. I never thought-
Rosetta Dufalla (09:18):
It was absolutely not. It was just something that happened and it has been truly an educational and very valuable experience. I
Aaron Chapin (09:27):
Personally think if that's your dream, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. I think you end up here for a reason, and it's not because of ambition. It's just because you want to do good things. I
Cheryl Mattern (09:37):
Had a very good friend of mine say to me that leadership is a journey, not a destination.
Aaron Chapin (09:42):
Exactly. Exactly. We should just end the podcast on that. We're not going to. Rosetta.
Rosetta Dufalla (09:48):
Oh, yes.
Aaron Chapin (09:48):
You're going to tell us. So look, you've been in also leaderships in the positions in the business world before you got into education. So talk a little bit about that. What are the parallels and differences you notice between the world of business and education?
Rosetta Dufalla (10:04):
Well, 120 years ago, let's see, I actually-
Aaron Chapin (10:08):
Is that when the stock market crashed?
Rosetta Dufalla (10:12):
Yeah. So I was in management actually for a retailer. I won't name the retailer, but I had to work with union individuals. I also worked in the advertising building company, part of it in Pittsburgh, and I worked in the general merchandise area and I traveled the state. But I did have to work with union members. We had to have a good relationship, and I think that relationship brought good organizational skills. It also gave me insight, and now that I'm a union member, on what management their expectations of the union. And it's interesting because I will tell you that I actually had to go to Indianapolis many, many years ago, and I had to train those union members that walked across that picket line, but it was my job. And as you can see, I don't have that job anymore, and I've been advocating for union, my local, and for all members for the last 35 years.
Aaron Chapin (11:26):
So you've been retired a year now?
Rosetta Dufalla (11:28):
I've been retired a year and a half.
Aaron Chapin (11:29):
Does it seem like it?
Rosetta Dufalla (11:30):
No, it goes fast and it's wonderful.
Aaron Chapin (11:32):
Okay. But you keep showing up for board meetings, you keep doing all the region work. There's a lot of work that still keeps going on. So what kept you coming back and keeping you engaged and committed even after you stepped down and quit your teaching job? Why do you keep coming back? And obviously, you got elected to this and you were allowed to serve out your two years. Why'd you keep coming back for more?
Rosetta Dufalla (12:00):
It's trite to just say it's rewarding, but there's still a charge and the charge and the challenge is advocacy. So you still are the steward of the members of retirees, of the members of active members. So you still have a job to do, and you still have legislators to talk to, and you still have to fight for pro- public education legislators, and you have to fight for pre-act nine retirees. There's always something to advocate for. And it does keep you young. I know you're a little older than I am, but it does keep you young. And you focus on the things that matter the most in public education. And that's the key because we're all in the same boat. We've all advocated. I've advocated with Cheryl probably, what, 20 years ago when we first met. So it keeps me young, keeps me going.
Aaron Chapin (12:59):
You've known each other that long?
Rosetta Dufalla (13:00):
I think ... It was a Gettysburg.
Aaron Chapin (13:03):
Yeah. Wow. It
Rosetta Dufalla (13:04):
Might be.
Aaron Chapin (13:05):
I didn't know there was a history.
Rosetta Dufalla (13:07):
Well, were you in-
Aaron Chapin (13:08):
Were you just out of nursing school?
Rosetta Dufalla (13:11):
Thank you, Aaron.
Aaron Chapin (13:14):
Oh, I'm going to get a lot of hate, man. I'm
Rosetta Dufalla (13:16):
So glad you let me at least put my teeth in
Aaron Chapin (13:18):
Today. All 50 listeners. They're going to be sending me hate mail. So let's talk about you, Cheryl. As we've heard, you're a school nurse. How did that shape your perspective on advocacy and what members actually need? Because you got a much different perspective.
Cheryl Mattern (13:35):
I think partially because we're a smaller group within PSEA. And unfortunately, there are a lot of school nurses who aren't members of PSEA because they don't really know where they fit. And I think that I was very fortunate to have people who saw value in pulling me into the conversations. And so that makes me more attentive to looking out for those smaller groups. We did a lot of advocacy when I was on the school nurse board towards nursing issues, which then helped me grow into the advocacy that we do for public education issues as a whole.
Aaron Chapin (14:17):
So when I met you, you were an NEA director and our listeners in the last episode were learning all about the NEA directors because MCP was on. You remember those NEA days?
Cheryl Mattern (14:28):
Oh, I do.
Aaron Chapin (14:29):
You do. And you were an NEA director before becoming VP of the Southern region. So how did your national experience change the way you did some leading it here at the state level? I got to imagine there's a difference.
Cheryl Mattern (14:42):
There is, definitely. And fortunately for me, I had some experience prior to that on the National School Nurse Board. So that helped ground me a little bit, helped me understand a little bit how good we have at Pennsylvania, first of all. We have a very strong union in Pennsylvania. We have a very strong school nurse organization in Pennsylvania, and so I can bring those experiences back. And oftentimes when I have members who are unhappy with certain things, I can say to them, "Well, this is how things are in other states.
Voiceover (15:14):
So
Cheryl Mattern (15:14):
Yes, we have it really good. Yes, we need to keep working to keep it and make it better." And I just think it gave me a perspective to share with members and to encourage them to keep working hard to keep what we have.
Aaron Chapin (15:27):
Yeah, I see it all the time. Cheryl, let's stick with you because I want to talk about one of your unique experiences that you've had while you're on the board. You've gladly, given your support, you travel a lot down to Central America. You do nursing work down there in local communities. How does that service really connect to or maybe reinforce the work that you do as a union leader?
Cheryl Mattern (15:54):
Well, I'm honestly not really sure. I guess it does connect, but because I'm using my nursing skills and organizational skills, quite honestly, again, it goes back to the fact that I love to learn. I love to serve people. I love to be involved in projects that promote good things. So in working in Guatemala with the medical teams, I'm taking care of people there, providing nursing services where they might not have them. And then back home, I'm serving my members however they need, if they need assistance with their constitution and bylaws, if they need assistance with how to handle a grievance, bargaining, things like that. I just think it all works together. And like I said, I feel a little selfish because I grow and I'm a better person, I think, because of those things.
Aaron Chapin (16:46):
That's really nice. Oh, that's really nice.
Rosetta Dufalla (16:50):
Thanks.
Aaron Chapin (16:51):
Rosetta, why don't you do that?
Rosetta Dufalla (16:53):
Because I guess I'm not saving the world like Cheryl. Thank you.
Aaron Chapin (16:59):
You both. Thankfully, we don't record these podcasts visually because I just got a very horrible expression from one of our guests. That's terrible. Frowny
Rosetta Dufalla (17:09):
Face.
Aaron Chapin (17:10):
That's terrible. Rosetta, we're coming back to you. Ready? Get serious now, because you've seen a lot of people during your time come up through the ranks. Yeah?
Voiceover (17:19):
Yes.
Aaron Chapin (17:19):
A lot. So what's one thing you tried to model for your emerging leaders that you really hope stuck with them, whether it be the local level, the region, the state, what's something you really try to model?
Rosetta Dufalla (17:33):
I feel that trying to get young people involved, you have to let them be involved. For example, I left being the president for a couple years and we had somebody step into that position. So I served as a mentor so that he could be on his own, but yet I was there as a sounding board. And I feel that you need to move aside sometimes and you need to let that person exist and do the work. And it's continual. I did that with grievance and I am a phone call away, but I truly want other people to learn from you. And whether that's you model things, whether that you give them a book of letters that they can use. But I think that given that opportunity, all it takes is an ask or all it takes is somebody to say, "This is what you'd be good in.
(18:34)
" I think you need to step into that leadership role. And then I do believe that they will emerge as a great leader and I will fade away.
Aaron Chapin (18:42):
It's not easy to do though, because we love the jobs that we do. It's hard to step away from the jobs that we do.
Rosetta Dufalla (18:48):
I'm in a position where you can say, "I'm leaving. I'm going to leave in one year. I'm going to leave in a year and a half. When I leave, somebody has to take over or nobody will take over." And fortunately, I was in a local that people emerged as good leaders.
Aaron Chapin (19:05):
That's a good philosophy. Cheryl, what about you? What's something you try to model for others?
Cheryl Mattern (19:10):
I think patience and genuine listening, really hearing what people are saying to you and just a willingness to be respectful and flexible.
Aaron Chapin (19:24):
That's good advice too. You guys should really be on board of directors.
Cheryl Mattern (19:29):
We'll
Aaron Chapin (19:29):
Think about
Rosetta Dufalla (19:30):
It. Maybe. Well, maybe we'll run.
Aaron Chapin (19:32):
Speaking about the board of directors, what's something that maybe the members don't know about serving on the board of directors? PSCA's board of directors. What's some behind the scenes? What's something that's appropriate for the podcast? This is PG. What's something, Cheryl, that you think people don't know about those of us that serve on the board of directors?
Cheryl Mattern (19:53):
I think maybe they don't know how close we all are. We can sit in a room and debate and have differences of opinion and then hang out afterwards. Rosetta was never a formal mentor for me, but she's always been a mentor for me. So we're like family, I think. That'd be great. Both at the board level and at the region level.
Aaron Chapin (20:15):
What do you think? What's something they don't know?
Rosetta Dufalla (20:18):
I think they have
Aaron Chapin (20:19):
To- Decide how charming I am behind the scenes. You
Rosetta Dufalla (20:21):
Are, Mr. Personality. We are dedicated. We have different regions. Our regions are run differently. Some have clusters. Some have coordinating councils. Some, because it's one county will have monthly meetings, but people have to realize we're dedicated. We have to run a region for our members, advocate for them, and make sure that we have enough learning conferences so that they can be involved and network. And I think that people don't understand when you're on any board, but what are the things that we do that you don't overtly see? And we fight for our members. We do. We advocate. And Cheryl and I, usually we're on the same page, but I agree with her in that you want a robust conversation, a robust debate so that everything is out there for us to vote on. And so everything we do will benefit our members and students.
Aaron Chapin (21:23):
I think you both ... I'm surprised both of you didn't mention just how much time you both have to give to the board of directors and how often you're away from home. It's something I don't think a lot of our members know.
Rosetta Dufalla (21:35):
Well, when you're dedicated, you have to go to those meetings. We go to the Representative Council, National Education Association Representative Council. It is time and it is dedication. But I will tell you, over the last 10 years, it has gone fast. And that's what you sign up for and that's the job and that's what you do.
Aaron Chapin (22:00):
Yeah. A lot of time away, Cheryl.
Cheryl Mattern (22:02):
It is. But I think it's very important time away. And I think to Jose's point, it goes very fast. I can't- It
Aaron Chapin (22:10):
Does go fast.
Cheryl Mattern (22:11):
Imagine that I've been on the board for-
Aaron Chapin (22:13):
How long has it been?
Cheryl Mattern (22:14):
10 years, I think.
Aaron Chapin (22:16):
11 for me. 10 for you guys both. Wow. It goes fast. And
Rosetta Dufalla (22:21):
I'm only 28.
Aaron Chapin (22:21):
And I had brown hair back then too. So let's talk about retirement. Cheryl.
Rosetta Dufalla (22:25):
Yes.
Aaron Chapin (22:27):
You're finishing the board this year, but you retire a year and a half from now. What's retirement look like for you?
Cheryl Mattern (22:33):
It looks like spending a lot of time with my grandsons. Traveling. My husband wants to travel. I love to read, so more reading and just being outside, walking, hiking, just doing what I want to do when I want to do it, I think is the big thing.
Aaron Chapin (22:49):
Are you looking forward to it?
Cheryl Mattern (22:51):
Very much.
Aaron Chapin (22:51):
Yeah. As much as you're going to miss this job.
Cheryl Mattern (22:53):
Yes, exactly. I will miss my family.
Aaron Chapin (22:55):
Yeah. Yeah, Cheryl. Rosetta, you've been retired now a year and a half.
Rosetta Dufalla (23:00):
Yes.
Aaron Chapin (23:01):
What's it look like? When you wake up at nine in the morning.That's
Rosetta Dufalla (23:06):
A little late. I don't wake up at 5:35 anymore. Well-
Aaron Chapin (23:10):
What do your retirement years look like right now?
Rosetta Dufalla (23:13):
I do have two beautiful little grandkids, Salvatore and Sabrina. You didn't
Aaron Chapin (23:18):
Know their time. Are they listening right now? I don't
Rosetta Dufalla (23:20):
Think so.
(23:20)
Okay. And I do get to spend ... I don't babysit them, but I do get to spend a lot of time with them. And I also, you want to feel productive, right? And I am a hobbyist. I do art and I just was involved with the American Heart Association and about six or seven of my fellow artists brought in artwork as a fundraiser and our donations went to ... We donated portion of our sales to the American Heart Association. It's a very important cause, and it is something that is beneficial. So that's what it is. And then tomorrow I might wake up at 8:30.
Aaron Chapin (24:01):
Really? Because the inclement weather coming our way. Cheryl, let's leave it with this. If you had to give a piece of advice, as somebody who's leaving the board of directors, you got to give advice to somebody who's an up and coming leader. They're stepping into these roles. What's one piece of advice you'd give?
Cheryl Mattern (24:19):
I would tell them to say yes and to be willing to step out of their comfort zone, to do things that they may not have even considered doing.
Aaron Chapin (24:27):
What's something that you had to do that's outside your comfort zone besides this podcast? What have you had
Cheryl Mattern (24:32):
To do? That's a huge one. Yes. Well, just stepping into the leadership roles that I stepped into. I mean, I just never pictured myself. And running for any director, running for Southern region vice president, those are things that were a little outside my comfort zone.
Aaron Chapin (24:49):
Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Rosetta? What's a piece of advice you've got to give to up and coming leader?
Rosetta Dufalla (24:58):
You are responsible for your members and everything you do has to be for the benefit of your members and also the benefit of our students in Pennsylvania. And I think that is very important. It's a role that is incumbent with the position and it is something that is not to be taken lightly.
Aaron Chapin (25:22):
Wow. That's good advice. Boom. Wow. I was depending on Cheryl for the really good advice, but that was a pretty good one too. Nice job. Did it sound good? Nice
Cheryl Mattern (25:30):
Job. Rezetta knocked it out of the park. She's amazing.
Aaron Chapin (25:33):
Look, first of all, thank you for wearing the headphones because our last guest, MCP, decided she wasn't going to wear headphones and got us in trouble. So thank you for wearing the headphones. You guys did great today. Well,
Rosetta Dufalla (25:45):
Thanks for having us. And I have to fluff up my hair after take the headphones off.
Cheryl Mattern (25:50):
Thank you for inviting
Aaron Chapin (25:51):
Me. No, are you kidding? Look, I've been looking forward to these podcasts for about a month now. When I thought about this, I thought, how can I selfishly get you in here and talk to you? And I've just, over the last decade, it's been fantastic just being able to hang out with both of you. We've been through some highs and some lows, but I've loved every minute of it. And I know I won't be able to get rid of either one of you once you're gone from the board of directors. I mean, I try with you, Rosetta. Cheryl, it's impossible, but you, Rosetta. No, both of you are fantastic. I really appreciate everything that you've done over the decade and even longer. You've done a lot. I know you're modest, both of you. No, you are. You're modest. You've done a lot for us. So thank you very much.
(26:41)
And we're going to miss you, but we know you're not that far away.
Rosetta Dufalla (26:44):
Yeah, we're still coming back a few weeks.
Aaron Chapin (26:46):
Oh yeah? Yeah. Well, thank you, Cheryl.
Rosetta Dufalla (26:50):
Thank you, Aaron.
Aaron Chapin (26:50):
Rosetta?
Rosetta Dufalla (26:51):
Thank you.
Aaron Chapin (26:52):
You betcha. And that does it for our time. We're overtime, but you know what? It's my podcast. I can do what I want. So sorry we bled into your planning period this week, everybody. Our guests today have been Rosetta Dufalla, Cheryl Mattern. Again, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure working with you over the last decade. Thanks for everything you've done for our members and for our kids, most importantly, our kids. Hey, all our listeners out there, thanks for tuning in. Got feedback for us? Send us an email podcast@psca.org. I'm Aaron Chapin, all by myself. And you've been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover (27:31):
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psa.org/podcast to learn more, and don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.