Join us for another dispatch from the legislative trenches as Aaron and Jeff sit down with PSEA-Retired leaders Todd Miller and Russ Stevenson during PSEA’s ACE Lobby Days in Harrisburg. They cover why retired educators remain on the front lines, the fight to protect pensions, and the push for a cost-of-living adjustment for pre-Act 9 retirees.
Join us for another dispatch from the legislative trenches as Aaron and Jeff sit down with PSEA-Retired leaders Todd Miller and Russ Stevenson during PSEA’s ACE Lobby Days in Harrisburg. They cover why retired educators remain on the front lines, the fight to protect pensions, and the push for a cost-of-living adjustment for pre-Act 9 retirees.
Do you have some feedback for us? Send an email to podcast@psea.org.
Learn more and watch for upcoming episodes at psea.org/podcast.
Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you, from cutting-edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions. If it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello, and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President Aaron Chapin. I'm here today with our PSEA Vice President, Jeff Ney. Welcome, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
Thank you for that warm welcome, Aaron. How are you doing today?
Aaron Chapin:
I am doing fantastic.
Jeff Ney:
Why are you doing fantastic?
Aaron Chapin:
Well, it's because of our great guests with us today.
Jeff Ney:
We do have some great guests today.
Aaron Chapin:
We do. We do. And I was thinking about back when I was a local president. You were a local president.
Jeff Ney:
I was.
Aaron Chapin:
Where were you a local president?
Jeff Ney:
Wilkes-Barre.
Aaron Chapin:
Because sometimes people chime in or listen in, and they don't know.
Jeff Ney:
I was the local president for Wilkes-Barre Area Education Association.
Aaron Chapin:
And I was the president of Stroudsburg Area. We did it for quite a while.
Jeff Ney:
We did.
Aaron Chapin:
And did you ever find yourself when you were president looking back at contracts? Old contracts?
Jeff Ney:
As a matter of fact, I had a whole file cabinet for them.
Aaron Chapin:
I did, too, and I would sit there around during my lunch break. My duty-free lunch.
Jeff Ney:
Very good. That's [inaudible 00:01:20].
Aaron Chapin:
I would look through, and I'd think, wow, how did they get these contracts back in those days in the early stages of collective bargaining in Pennsylvania?
Jeff Ney:
The work that went into some of the early contracts ... People sometimes take all that stuff for granted, but they had to start from somewhere.
Aaron Chapin:
That's why I was very ... I was always mystified by it. And I like to talk to our retired presidents because I think that they are a treasure trove of information.
Jeff Ney:
100%. In Wilkes-Barre Area, we actually kept some of our past presidents on for just that historical knowledge.
Aaron Chapin:
And that's today's topic.
Jeff Ney:
Oh, my goodness. Look at that segue.
Aaron Chapin:
I know.
Jeff Ney:
That's nice.
Aaron Chapin:
I know. I was thinking about it in the car ride all yesterday. Today, we're recording during one of our four PSEA ACE advocacy days here in Harrisburg. We got four of them going on during the month of June. It's a huge day for our members. They come in from all across the state during these four days. They meet with lawmakers. They speak up on behalf of Pennsylvania students, schools, as well as our colleagues, our support staff, our professional staff. And with us today, we have two of our finest. I'm not sure who wrote the word finest in there, but they are pretty great.
Jeff Ney:
They are pretty good.
Aaron Chapin:
Two of our finest PSEA-Retired members. We've got the Northeastern region, which we're from, Jeff. The PSEA-Retired president, Todd Miller. And then we've got Allegheny County PSEA-Retired ... I can't believe we got you here, man. This is amazing. PSEA-Retired President Russ Stevenson. Well, both of you, welcome to the podcast.
Todd Miller:
Thank you to have us.
Russ Stevenson:
Thank you.
Aaron Chapin:
Are you excited?
Russ Stevenson:
Yes.
Aaron Chapin:
This is the highlight of your careers.
Russ Stevenson:
No.
Todd Miller:
We were told we have faces for radio.
Jeff Ney:
There you go. We got it on there.
Aaron Chapin:
You guys are handsome, handsome devils. Look, they may be retired from the classroom, but they haven't stepped back from their fight when it comes to public education. They are just as involved now as they were back in the day. Again, gentlemen, welcome to the podcast, and let's get things started. No more shenanigans.
As I said, you're here today to do some lobbying. I really think it's important for you to share with all of our listeners one highlight each of you can share about your experiences today at Lobby Day. Todd, I'm going to start with you. What was the highlight of today besides being in the podcast studio?
Todd Miller:
Well, I met with my state representative, Jon Fritz. And I met with my state senator, Rosemary Brown.
I enjoyed the conversations with both of them. They are not 100% with PSEA on all issues, but they are genuinely, I think, concerned about public education. And it was nice to have a dialogue with both of them back and forth. Very constructive.
Aaron Chapin:
To our listeners out there, Todd's from a conservative area of the Northeastern region. One of the things we're very proud of in the Northeastern region is the fact that we have these bipartisan conversations all the time. And I know both of these legislators. This is what they do. They have these discussions, even if we don't agree.
Todd Miller:
That's correct.
Aaron Chapin:
What about you, Russ? Highlight. What's the biggest highlight?
Russ Stevenson:
I met with Emily Kinkead, Representative Emily Kinkead, and the Senator Wayne Fontana. Both are pro-education representatives, so I have no trouble with either one of them. When I go into their office, they're very happy to see me because we're all on the same page.
Aaron Chapin:
That's pretty good. That's a great day if someone ... You walk in a room, and they're happy to see you.
Russ Stevenson:
Yes.
Jeff Ney:
Allegheny County is ... It does have a lot of those pro-public education legislators.
Russ Stevenson:
Yes, we do.
Jeff Ney:
Russ, I'm going to keep with you. Now, once somebody retires from PSEA or retires from their district, it's very easy that you could just sit back and just not do anything anymore, but you two both have decided to stay active, stay involved in PSEA-Retired even after your career in education inside the classroom ended.
Why is that? Why did you choose to keep going?
Russ Stevenson:
Well, because I think it's very important. Let me just say that I was active for 39 years. And then 21 more years in retirement. I feel it's very important. And I love doing the job of advocating for teachers, even though I'm no longer a teacher, but I still advocate for.
Aaron Chapin:
It's part of your DNA.
Russ Stevenson:
It is. True.
Jeff Ney:
And Todd, how about you?
Todd Miller:
I actually joined PSEA-Retired many, many years ago. Probably 32 or 33 years ago. I joined as a PSEA pre-retired life member probably when I had about seven or eight years in the profession. And I did that specifically because I recognized that my success was tied to PSEA and that the more successful PSEA was, the more successful I would be, the more successful my students would be. And that was very important to me.
When I left the classroom in 2018, I was already a member, and I just kind of naturally flowed into attending things and continuing to do my part.
Jeff Ney:
I agree. Signing up for pre-retirement PSEA-Retired is something that even Aaron and I have already done ourselves, so we're very much looking forward to doing that as well.
Aaron Chapin:
Go ahead, Russ.
Russ Stevenson:
I was just going to say I did the exact same thing too. I signed up for retirement, and I paid my dues ahead of time just like Todd and you two. And I do have a question about that, though.
Jeff Ney:
You're asking us a question?
Russ Stevenson:
I'm asking you a question.
Jeff Ney:
Wow. That might be the first time.
Aaron Chapin:
I think it's the first time we've ever been asked a question on the podcast.
Russ Stevenson:
Well, the question is, if more and more people pay their dues, how do we continue to collect money to support everything that PSEA does?
Jeff Ney:
Well, I think that's the whole point of paying into it, because that is held into an account, and then when that person actually retires, then that money is released to the areas in which they become retired from.
Russ Stevenson:
Very good. I did not know that.
Aaron Chapin:
Good to know.
Russ Stevenson:
Thank you.
Jeff Ney:
Russ, I'm going to stay with you. PSEA-Retired has got 30,000, that they all decide to, again, stay active like you two gentlemen. There's probably a whole bunch of different reasons. And I know you talked to a lot of different retiree groups, not just the ones in Allegheny.
What are some of the reasons why some of your friends say that they want to stay active in PSEA-Retired?
Russ Stevenson:
Well, they like the camaraderie of the people. They also like the benefits of all the ... I shouldn't say free stuff they get. But in a way, sometimes.
Aaron Chapin:
No, we have those kind of benefits that come with our membership.
Russ Stevenson:
The benefits is what I'm referring to. If you want to stay involved, you also get the benefit of all those [inaudible 00:08:45]-
Aaron Chapin:
They just wanted to continue into their retirement years.
Russ Stevenson:
Yes, exactly.
Aaron Chapin:
We offer a lot.
Russ Stevenson:
Right. We do. We do.
Aaron Chapin:
Todd, let's talk about pensions. Want to talk about pensions?
Todd Miller:
Sure.
Aaron Chapin:
Pension protection. It's a big issue.
Todd Miller:
It is.
Aaron Chapin:
For retired educators as well as current educators. Why should our current educators care about pension protection?
Todd Miller:
Current educators should care about pension protection because eventually they will be a retired educator as well, and they will reap the benefits that they sow along the way. And when state policy is made that impacts us, it will eventually impact them. And likewise, our involvement ... Just because I'm retired, I'm not divorced from the classroom. I think education is ... In my case, education was more of a calling rather than a job. And Russ mentioned, or Aaron, I think you said earlier, that this is kind of in your DNA. I think to a certain extent it's like that for a lot of retirees. And that's important. Their pensions are important. When they leave employment, this is their livelihood, and it's important that things keep up with the prices of things today.
Aaron Chapin:
I think a lot about people that are young enough, they're in their 30s, 40s, they think everything's going to be just great when I retire. I've got this pension. But you know that it needs to be ... It's just like a good garden. You got to take care of it, otherwise it's just not going to be there for you when you need it.
Todd Miller:
Exactly. We don't need a lot of weeds.
Jeff Ney:
Aaron said that we're at our second ACE Lobby Day, and we've had retirees sign up for each one of the four that we have. Russ, why do you think it's important for our legislators across the street to hear about the concerns of our retirees, not just the people that are active, whether they're in the classroom or support staff or whatever?
Russ Stevenson:
Or even from PSA officers or even people that work here in headquarters. It's better to hear from us, the grassroots people. Even though we are retired, we have been there, we've done that, and they need to hear it from us.
Aaron Chapin:
Absolutely.
Todd Miller:
I think there is a certain political reality to this that older folks tend to vote, and I think legislators realize that. When a retiree does raise an issue with them, my experience is that I have found everyone very willing to engage in a discussion, at least.
Aaron Chapin:
I agree. And I think the legislators listen to all of our educators, but I think that they also recognize the experience that you've got.
Jeff Ney:
And I think our legislators recognize not only the experience that you have, but that you're going to take that back to your home districts where you're from, where you still have contact with those people, and they're going to listen to you as well.
Russ Stevenson:
Can I add something?
Jeff Ney:
Sure.
Aaron Chapin:
Second question.
Russ Stevenson:
Second question.
Aaron Chapin:
You only get three questions.
Russ Stevenson:
It's not a question this time. It's a statement that Todd and I, as being retired people, we stay active because we want to make sure the newbies understand where it all came from. And it came from people like Todd and myself, and we just didn't wake up and say, "Here's this contract of," ... And now we're making $100,000 or whatever it might be. We earned that. We worked for that. We negotiated for that. We sometimes even struck for that.
Aaron Chapin:
I think there's a movement going on in our ranks right now, our active ranks, where there's a real desire, actually, to learn about our history, not just of unions, but I think specifically PSEA. I think our members are ... We're starting to see more and more want to know, how did we get to this point in 2025 in our union? And we've seen it down in the southern region where they go over union history all the time. We had a new business item come to our House of Delegates back in December where we're now required to talk about union history at our houses. There's a desire out there. They want to know how you guys got us to this point.
Todd Miller:
I think that's important. And I also want to give a shoutout to the generation of folks before me. I started teaching in 1985. Act 195 went into effect in 1970. There were 15 years worth of local leaders before me that paved a lot of the ground. And in contract negotiations locally when I was working, people would just assume, well, we always have insurance. Well, we always have sick leave. Well, we always have this or that. No, we don't. And the reason why we have it is because we fought for it, and we earned it, and we need to keep it.
Aaron Chapin:
And that's what I used ... When I was sitting at my desk back in my classroom during my duty-free lunch, I would read those. I'm like, man, how did they get those? How did that even come to be? It's something that a lot of us take for granted today in the active ranks.
But I want to circle back on something I talked about because obviously you two come from very different parts of the state. Todd, you got a very bipartisan neck of the woods. And I know, Russ, if you get out of Allegheny County, you have a lot more Republicans. I'm kind of curious. Quickly, how do you both deal with legislators on both sides of the aisle? Because obviously it's really important. In Pennsylvania, we have a very ... It's almost 50/50 down the line when it comes to our state legislature. You got to work with both sides of the aisle. I'm going to start with you, Russ.
When you have those opportunities to meet with legislators on one side or the other, how do you make that work? Because it's not easy.
Russ Stevenson:
That's a very good question. Sometimes we don't and not because of us. It's not our fault. They sometimes do not want to negotiate or talk to us. We have endorsement meetings all the time in Western region. And a lot of times, we only get the Democrats. We don't get the Republican comments. We wish we could get them, really, honestly.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, you just talked about, Todd, that you had two meetings today, both of them with Republicans.
Todd Miller:
That's right.
Aaron Chapin:
And so when it comes ... Because I know I remember talking with you this time last year because there's important legislation. How do you make that work?
Todd Miller:
I often point out that our PSEA membership is bipartisan, that we have Republican and Democratic members. We have members that are voters that are not affiliated with either of the major parties and that what we're here to do is to try to build a consensus. On things that we can agree, let's agree. On things that we disagree, let's talk. Let's engage more. I've learned things from a Republican legislator or someone else that feels differently than I do on many issues, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity for the dialogue. I can learn as well as I can teach, and I think it goes both ways.
Jeff Ney:
Speaking of things that we're in a little bit of a disagreement about, one of the key issues, and we've had it several times on this podcast, was are retirees fighting for a cost of living increase for our PreACT 9 employees across the state? We all understand that it's important to get that cost of living passed, but what do you think the impact would be to our PSEA-Retired PreACT 9 people to get that cost of living across the finish line?
What kind of impacts would that make on their lives in today's world? Russ, I'm going to start with you.
Russ Stevenson:
It would make a totally dynamic impact in the fact that they don't have to decide, should I take my prescription drugs today, or should I feed myself today? I mean, it is terrible that we don't have that by now.
Aaron Chapin:
Russ, I think there's people out there that don't believe that. And you know firsthand that your colleagues out there, your friends ... That's a decision that they're making each and every day.
Russ Stevenson:
Absolutely. I have a couple friends, well, older friends, but they're in their 90s, and they do exactly what I just said about, do I take my medicine today, or do I feed myself today, or do I pay this bill today or that bill?
Aaron Chapin:
That's awful.
Russ Stevenson:
For the people that are out there, it's true.
Jeff Ney:
Todd, what about you? I mean, up in the Northeast, you're relatively new as the Northeast region retired president.
Todd Miller:
That's right. I'm in my first term. My first year, actually, of my first term. I replaced Annette Palutis, longtime PSEA advocate.
Aaron Chapin:
A legend.
Todd Miller:
A legend is right.
Jeff Ney:
Former PSEA president.
Todd Miller:
Former PSEA president. I think 1991 to 1995. And then she returned to the classroom when her term was up as president.
When I talk to state legislators and policy makers, I often try to give a specific example. My example that I use with cost of living increase is a teacher who retired in 1993 as part of the Mellow Bill. She had, I think, 30 years in or maybe 33 years in. And with the Mellow Bill the way it was, I think she got an extra 10%, so it was 36.3 years, but she hasn't had a cost of living increase since 2002. Imagine me living on the same wage that I was making in 2002, and now it's 2025. Her purchasing power has decreased by more than 50% since her retirement, and she's now 93 years old.
Russ was saying people make decisions as to, what are going to be my priorities? Is my priority medicine today? Is my priority food today? I think too many people have to make those decisions.
Jeff Ney:
And it's a shame.
Todd Miller:
And there should be a promise of a secure retirement.
Aaron Chapin:
They devoted their lives to taking care of kids.
Todd Miller:
That's right.
Aaron Chapin:
For the betterment of this Commonwealth.
Todd Miller:
And not just teachers. Support staff as well.
Aaron Chapin:
Yes.
Todd Miller:
This is something that is ... When I have these discussions with Senator Brown or with Representative Fritz, they often both say, "What's right is right." Sometimes you just got to do the right thing. Yes, it takes money. It takes prioritizing something. That's what the state legislature does, and I think our role is to tell the state legislature what we need and why we need it.
Jeff Ney:
We've highlighted a lot of the things, a lot of the policy work, that PSEA-Retires do, but there's more to PSEA-Retired than just policy work. If we've got some listeners out there that may belong to PSEA-Retired, could you give us some examples of some of the favorite events or experiences that shows how this group is more than just this policy talking about legislation or coming down here for ACEs? Todd, let's start with you.
Todd Miller:
I think a lot of people ... I think there are people that retire that were politically active and want to stay politically active. I think by far there are people that took the advice of PSEA when they were working on political issues, but they don't live and breathe and eat politics.
Russ said people are interested in camaraderie. I agree. I think one of our big draws is that people participate in social activities, and we have a very active activities committee in the Northeast region retired headed by Pam Zaremba. Pam is one of our chapter presidents for the Luzerne County chapter. So far this year, Pam has done a CPR training. That was back in February. She has done a St. Patrick's Day party. We had about 55 people turn out for that.
Russ Stevenson:
That's nice.
Jeff Ney:
I'm Luzerne County. I didn't get an invitation.
Aaron Chapin:
You're not retired.
Todd Miller:
You're not retired. That's right. PSEA-Retired member. But your membership doesn't kick in until you actually turn in your paperwork.
Jeff Ney:
Gotcha.
Todd Miller:
We had a Pisanki egg decorating event that she did.
Those are things that come to mind that we've had this spring.
Jeff Ney:
Russ, how about you in Allegheny County?
Russ Stevenson:
Well, the unfortunate part is we are only one local.
Jeff Ney:
One county.
Russ Stevenson:
You have one county, unlike Todd or some of the others have three different levels-
Aaron Chapin:
He's got like 50 counties.
Russ Stevenson:
At least, right?
Jeff Ney:
I [inaudible 00:21:50] parts of 12.
Russ Stevenson:
Anyway, we have had pop-up socials every other month sometimes. We also have ... Last summer and the summer before, we did River Cruise, which was really nice up and down the rivers, the Monongahela, Ohio, and Allegheny. Very successful. People want to do more of those. And we say ...
When we do, let's say, for example, pop-up socials, we have to let the people know, I mean the venue know, how many people. And I say, "Well, it could be 10, or it could be 200-
Todd Miller:
Could be 250.
Russ Stevenson:
... 50, whatever the number might be. Because we have a total of 2,600 members, something like that, which we know we're not going to get all those, but ...
Jeff Ney:
I've been invited to another retiree group. They do a casino trip every once in a while out there on the west side of the state.
Aaron Chapin:
Jeff, pop quiz time. You got to make it quick too.
Jeff Ney:
Both of you guys ... I've talked to both of you in several different locations, and one of the things that we always talk about is the future of education and the future that we see coming up through here.
What gives you hope for the future of public education and the union movement here in Pennsylvania to keep your own batteries charged and keep going? Todd, how about we start-
Aaron Chapin:
Got to make it fast though.
Todd Miller:
I was a social studies teacher. I think, throughout our history, public education has been the great equalizer. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, you go to the same school, and you have largely the same experiences. To me, that's important, and that's what keeps me going.
Jeff Ney:
Great. Russ, what about you? What keeps you going?
Russ Stevenson:
Well, for example, what happened today with all the people that came in for Lobby Day, to see that many people ... I can remember the first time I did a Lobby Day. We might've had six people. Today, we had almost 20.
Jeff Ney:
The room was filled.
Russ Stevenson:
It was filled. And I think, with that success, we will do well in the future.
Aaron Chapin:
Couldn't have said it any better. It has been an honor, gentlemen. We've known you both for quite a long time, and so it was a thrill when the stars aligned, and you were able to come in on this Lobby Day and sit down for a podcast. I'm thrilled to death, and it's great for us to talk about what's going on with our retirees in PSEA. You guys are such a big part of what we do. Russ, thank you very much.
Russ Stevenson:
Thank you, Aaron and Jeff.
Aaron Chapin:
Todd, it is absolutely a pleasure to have you here.
Todd Miller:
Thank you for the opportunity. We appreciate you.
Aaron Chapin:
Who knew we'd be doing this a decade ago?
Todd Miller:
That's right.
Aaron Chapin:
I know. And that's it for all of our time. Our guests, again, have been Todd Miller, Russ Stevenson, great retirees of PSEA. Thanks for making a trip into Harrisburg and making Advocacy Day a success.
Thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. You got some feedback for us? You maybe need some advice? We haven't really got any advice questions, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
Well, now we have some veterans. They could probably really give us some advice.
Aaron Chapin:
Maybe you want to talk to Russ or Todd?
Jeff Ney:
We can get you connected.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, maybe Todd will give the advice. I think I know where Russ is going with his advice. Hey, you got to email us at podcast@psea.org. I'm Aaron Chapin.
Jeff Ney:
And I'm Jeff Ney.
Aaron Chapin:
And you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more. And don't forget to subscribe and share.
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