Aaron, Jeff, and Rachael sit down with PSEA-Retired members Scott Brown and Jacqualyn James to talk about a much-needed cost-of-living-adjustment for our pre-Act 9 retirees. Nearly 43,000 public servants who retired before 2002 have not seen a COLA in their pension in more than 20 years. Here are two of their stories.
Aaron, Jeff, and Rachael sit down with PSEA-Retired members Scott Brown and Jacqualyn James to talk about a much-needed cost-of-living-adjustment for our pre-Act 9 retirees. Nearly 43,000 public servants who retired before 2002 have not seen a COLA in their pension in more than 20 years. Here are two of their stories.
Click here to watch an interview Jacqualyn James did on this subject with "NBC Nightly News."
Do you have some feedback for us? Send an email to podcast@psea.org.
Learn more and watch for upcoming episodes at psea.org/podcast.
Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you from cutting-edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions. If it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I am PSEA President Aaron Chapin, and I'm here again today with PSEA Vice President Jeff Nye and Treasurer Rachel West. Hello, Rachel and Jeff.
Rachael West:
Hi, Aaron. How you doing?
Aaron Chapin:
Awesome.
Jeff Ney:
Hey, Aaron. What's going on?
Aaron Chapin:
It's another beautiful day here in Harrisburg.
Jeff Ney:
It is.
Aaron Chapin:
And it seems like forever, but for the first time in a while, the three of us are in the podcast room able to do a podcast. We've been really busy over the last month or two.
Jeff Ney:
It's been great. But yeah, it's great to be back together again.
Rachael West:
Nice to be here and ready to get going and be with our guest.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, I'm excited because today we're going to be talking about an issue that means a lot to us as well as our team here at PSEA and out in the field. So we're really excited to get started. Today we're actually talking with a couple of our wonderful PSEA retired members, Scott Brown and Jacquelyn James. We're going to be talking about a much needed cost of living adjustment for our pre-Act 9 retirees. Now, for those of you out there wondering, what is Aaron talking about? Well, that means anyone who retired in 2001 or earlier, they haven't seen a cost of living adjustment in their pension in more than 20 years. And I know a lot of you listening might find that shocking, and you're absolutely right.
PSEA has made this one of our top priorities and we're doing a number of things to bring a COLA home for these retired members. So we'll talk about those and where we're at with this legislation, our efforts to get a COLA passed alongside the current state budget negotiations that are taking place. But before we get started, let's talk to our guests. Let's get them introduced. Jacquelyn James spent more than 30 years teaching American history and psychology in the great Stroudsburg Area School District and retired in 1998. Good afternoon to you, Jackie. How you doing?
Jacqualyn James:
I'm wonderful, thanks.
Aaron Chapin:
Great. And our other guest that we have today is Scott Brown. He taught mathematics and the even better Colonial School district in Montgomery County for more than 39 years before retiring in 2001. How are you doing, Scott?
Scott Brown:
I'm great, Aaron. Really doing well, and I'm so happy my union is advocating for me.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, we are just thankful for all the work that you both have done over your career. So for those of you listening right now, both Jacquelyn and Scott, they've been very vocal in our fight to get a pre-Act 9 retiree, I'm sorry for pre-Act 9, retirees a COLA. So they've been working really hard. We definitely want to share their story. So again, welcome to you Jacklyn and Scott, it's wonderful to have you on the podcast, but we're going to get right into the questions. So before we get to really the crux of this COLA, I want to give a few COLA fast facts to our listeners. Again, if you don't want to hit the rewind button here on your phone, you can go to psea.org/COLA. There's a lot of information there, but just some fast facts for everybody.
From 1968 to 2002, the General Assembly passed COLA legislation every four or five years. And in addition, there has been no approved COLA legislation since 2002. So for some context, that's five years before the first iPhone even hit the market. Also in November of 2023, thanks in part to PSEA member advocacy, the PAEA House of Representatives passed the Bipartisan COLA bill known as House Bill 1416. And finally, the last piece of information. This association has been advocating hard for a COLA to be included in the 2024/25 budget, which is in discussion as of this podcast being recorded. It's being talked about right now. So we're working really hard to get it done. So let's get into the questions now that you all have some background information, Rachel.
Rachael West:
Okay, so I'm going to get started. Jacquelyn, let's start with you. Please tell our listeners in your own words what a cost of living adjustment would mean to you.
Jacqualyn James:
Well, the cost of living, first of all, I want to mention that the CPI now says as of last week, that $1 is worth 51 cents. An issue that came up just yesterday is that I had fuel delivered to my house. At this point, I'm not even sure that I can pay the bill, but they automatically deliver the fuel that will keep my furnace working. And so what will it mean to me? It will mean that I can pay the bills that I still have.
Rachael West:
Yeah, I can't imagine living in the Northeast, that's a pretty important thing to keep track of, especially in the winter months. Thank you for sharing that with us. Scott, are you able to share the same thing, in your own words, tell us what a cost of living adjustment would mean for you.
Scott Brown:
Well, first of all, I think for the many, many people effects, it's a matter of justice, it's a matter of recognition, as well as buying power for the contributions of all the public employees who helped shape this commonwealth. I survived and I bought smaller cars. I skipped vacations. I lost earning power, and I know there are people worse off than me. But again, I would say it's dollars and recognition. Thank you.
Rachael West:
Yes.
Aaron Chapin:
It's one of those things that everybody's talking about. And Scott, I'm going to stay with you because I got to know you pretty well at one of our legislature events where we were talking to some legislators, had a little fun playing golf, but even more importantly, you spoke at the Capitol rally back in October before the house passed that house Bill 1416 that Aaron referenced. Was that an empowering experience? Tell us all about how you felt going to the capitol and giving those words.
Scott Brown:
It was powerful. Again, I appreciate that my union put this together in conjunction with other unions. Speaking in the house, the feedback was affirming and positive. Our sponsors, the two senators and house members were powerful. And so the overwhelming support continues to be inspiring. I've been interviewed by various newspapers. Friends of mine have sent me letters that have been published in papers around the Commonwealth. So that was, I would say, in terms of being an advocate during my retired career, that was the highlight.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah, we had a lot of feedback and everything else that was positive about that. How about lawmakers? Did you hear back from any lawmakers after you spoke at the Capitol?
Scott Brown:
I actually heard back from a couple of retired lawmakers that I had known in my previous work that gave me some affirmation. I did not hear from any state senators in the middle or western part of the state that wanted to jump on court.
Rachael West:
And I know that I remember seeing some of the clips from that Capitol rally and your remarks there on TV. And I know that Jacquelyn also was recently interviewed by Christine Romans at NBC about the COLA legislation. Jackie, can you tell us about that experience? What were some of the points you raised when you spoke with NBC?
Jacqualyn James:
Well, I was delighted to be interviewed by NBC. This whole organization was handled by their senior financial reporter, and it was absolutely an amazing experience. They brought about eight people in their crew, an amazing TV cameraman that recorded, and they had an excellent research historian that knew all about this, and they even were aware that the house bill went to Senator Dush in committee, and they were amazing to work with. I'm very, very pleased. At the end of the interview, I was glad that the person Christine Romans, said, "Isn't it true that the legislators get a COLA every year?" And I said, "Thank you for saying that."
Aaron Chapin:
Awesome.
Rachael West:
It's interesting how they make sure they cover themselves, but was there anything in particular that you spoke with them about that you thought was a great point that you raised that maybe they had missed?
Jacqualyn James:
Well, they met everything. They are really professional, and I hope that you all will be able to see this interview when it airs. I've been in touch with the senior reporter and she said her job is to write the whole story, which she will do, and it will be permanently on the NBC website. And it will include the interview, and somebody else is writing the script for the interview. She doesn't have a time yet for when it will be, and I should let everybody know it's on Nightly News, NBC Lester Holt at 6:30. We don't have a time yet, but I hope all of you will be able to see this interview. And by the way, they also used and talked about the article that we were able to get printed in the Philadelphia Inquirer where I told them what I thought and I was very, very pleased that we got it printed. It was not an easy task to do.
Aaron Chapin:
No, no. And we appreciate you being willing to let NBC do that. When our communications team, NBC got in touch with them, and I spoke with them at the end of March just to give a little bit of information. They were just blown away by the stories that I was just telling about our pre-ACT 9 retirees. And I guarantee that when Jackie gave that interview, it's just those are the stories that truly make a difference in trying to get this over the finish line. And so I'm sure our members are going to be thrilled to see that story,
Jeff Ney:
And we're going to make sure that our members get ahold of that. As soon as we find out when that story is going to air, we will make sure that we put it out there on our socials. So keep checking back to asea.org and all of the socials. We'll let you know.
Aaron Chapin:
Excellent. So as PSEA retired members, you already do so much for our fellow educators. We're very lucky. And this issue is really no different. We've got 40,000 of your fellow pre-Act 9 retirees that would benefit from COLA legislation. So I'm going to go back to you, Scott, do you have any stories of colleagues whose situations would be especially impacted by a cost of living increase?
Scott Brown:
I've been in touch with a few folks, and the one that breaks my heart is the cafeteria lady at Plymouth-Whitemarsh High School that served me lunch when I was teaching in the late '90s, and her husband died and she retired in the '90s on the pension of a cafeteria worker, so you can imagine how low that is. And not to have any co-op after all these years. She needs help from her family and probably some other organizations to keep going.
Aaron Chapin:
That's terrible.
Scott Brown:
That breaks my heart. Nice lady and a member of our union. And it's a sad situation. And there are other folks, and some of them, you might recognize their names. People aren't really, really raising their hand and calling out that are hurting. They just expect that after they've served the commonwealth, they serve their school districts, they've served their communities, that they'd be taken care of in later life.
Aaron Chapin:
And I think that's the part that really just, it affects all of us here at PSEA and our colleagues around the state when we hear these stories. Because as you were referencing at this cafeteria worker, she was in the cafeteria taking care of our kids for years and years, and it is just completely cruel. And this is how the legislature is treating these public servants. And it does, it rips your heart out. Jackie, are there any story or two that you could tell?
Jacqualyn James:
Well, I'm not going to tell any stories other than my own. And I do realize that many legislators are in favor of enacting legislation that would maintain our standard of living. And this is not a political issue, it's a matter of humanity. We contributed to our pension all the years we worked. I used to say that I was embarrassed to beg the legislature for a COLA legislation. I'm not embarrassed anymore. I'm exasperated and discouraged to realize that my state has been ignoring us. And we say that we had a COLA in 2002, actually it's been 26 years other than that, that I've had a COLA. And so we feel like we have been forgotten. It certainly is a shame that the value of our pension is dependent upon a member in this legislature that would agree to pass legislation to maintain the value of our pension.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, let me tell you something, Jackie, that we at PSEA, the staff, the officers, the current employees right now across the state, we care about you. And we absolutely believe in this cause. But I'll also tell you that across the street in the Capitol, there are members on both sides of the aisle that do believe you're absolutely right. We do have members in the senate and in the house we saw, obviously, again, I mentioned it earlier that there was a bill back in November where bipartisan support, there are people on both sides of the aisle that want to step up and do the right thing. It's just going to take leaders on both sides to make this happen.
Jeff Ney:
And Scott, you mentioned something I just want to circle back to because you said of the honor of the people that are in this profession, no matter what avenue of education you're on, whether you were in a cafeteria, driving a bus, in a office setting or in a classroom, we are just a proud group of people in education. And we always wanted to do things for others, not actually get things done for us. So it is hard for people to share their stories and to let people know, look, I'm struggling. I need help. But these legislators definitely need to hear from everybody out there, including the people that are still in the system to make sure that we are taking care of everything moving forward. Because if it happened to one group, it could potentially happen to so many more.
Aaron Chapin:
Absolutely. Well, guess what, Jeff?
Jeff Ney:
Oh, is it pop quiz time?
Aaron Chapin:
You've been doing this long enough.
Jeff Ney:
I have.
Aaron Chapin:
You know it is pop quiz time. So get ready, Scott. Get ready, Jackie.
Jeff Ney:
So let's stay on the topic of legislators for a little bit. Let's just say that you get trapped in an elevator with a legislator.
Aaron Chapin:
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Jacqualyn James:
Trapped?
Jeff Ney:
Well, stuck, momentarily stuck.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow.
Jeff Ney:
And you had them for yourself just to chew their ear off about this COLA legislation. What do you think you would actually say to that legislator who may be on the fence of voting for a COLA for pre-ACT 9s? Jackie, let's start with you. What would you say to that legislator?
Jacqualyn James:
First, let me be aware that I went to the local GOP headquarters when we were having a meet-and-greet, and I spoke to my state legislator, Rosemary Brown, and the first thing she says is, "Oh, I'm definitely in favor but it's just not all up to me." What I then said to her was, "I was a high school teacher, United States history and psychology, and once upon a time you were a high school student. I may not have been your teacher. Perhaps I taught your children or your grandchildren. I like to believe that I helped prepare you for the life that you are now enjoying. By now I could be your grandmother, and I know that I can count on you to do your part, to adjust my pension, to preserve my quality of living."
Jeff Ney:
Wow. That is like textbook veteran educator right there. That's fantastic. How about you, Scott? What if you've had your time with a legislator all by yourself?
Scott Brown:
I respect those who enter public service. That includes lawmakers and I believe educators. In 1963, John Fitzgerald Kennedy called our generation to give back to our country. He challenged us to help beat the Soviets to the moon. I raised my hand and committed to a career as a mathematics teacher. Now, after teaching 35 years at age 85, I and my colleagues feel overlooked and undervalued. 22 years without a COLA really stinks. Please help us.
Jeff Ney:
Wow. I'll tell you what, once again, once an educator, always an educator, you're still teaching us to this day. It's absolutely fantastic talking to both of you.
Aaron Chapin:
And I will, just going back to our gathering was it back in October, you said?
Jeff Ney:
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Chapin:
It wasn't the words that I set up there in front of, it was a large crowd there.
Jeff Ney:
It was.
Aaron Chapin:
There was a large crowd. We had a large group behind us of pre-Act 9 retirees and current retirees, as well as some active members right now. But I remember Scott just crushed it there. And when the press conference was over, we had just gaggles of people.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah, they were looking for him.
Aaron Chapin:
They were going to Scott.
Jeff Ney:
Yeah. They were all looking for him.
Aaron Chapin:
I was just standing there. Hey, what about? No, because Scott's words, as well as the other retirees that spoke that day, again, that's what really sticks in the minds of our legislators. That's what stick.
Rachael West:
Absolutely. I know that watching on TV, I didn't get to attend the press conference live, so I actually saw the footage on WGL, I think, and I had even friends texting me saying, "Did you see this?" People were really, really moved by the stories of our retirees. And I think the stories that we're telling and the compelling way that these two members would kind of get in the ear of a legislator is exactly what they need to hear.
Jeff Ney:
And one more thing, Aaron, before we wrap up here. For all of those retirees that are out there, Rachel, Aaron, myself, we all stand on the shoulders of everybody that came before us and the lessons that you have all taught all of us. So thank you for all of your service that you have done. Jackie and Scott, we've been lucky enough to have you guys here today to actually talk to and to learn from once again. So thank you all for everything that you've done.
Aaron Chapin:
And I'll just add on there before we close it out, if we've got some-
Jacqualyn James:
[inaudible 00:20:25].
Aaron Chapin:
Absolutely. If we've got some retirees out there that would got some time on their hands, you'd like to come to Harrisburg, maybe do a little lobbying like Scott and some other of our retirees, we can absolutely make that happen. Just reach out to us at headquarters, we'll get you in touch with our government relations team, and they will put you to work, put you to work. But again, thank you to both of you because unfortunately, that is it for us today. We're all out of time. Our guests have been the amazing PSEA retired members, Scott Brown and Jacquelyn James, and on behalf of us, thank you both for everything you've done and continue to do for public education in Pennsylvania. So thank you again, Scott and Jackie.
Scott Brown:
Thank you. It was a class event.
Jacqualyn James:
You're welcome.
Aaron Chapin:
All right, and thanks again to all of our listeners for tuning in. Do you have some feedback? Maybe you got a question, got some comments, advice. Well-
Jeff Ney:
Maybe Rachel this time?
Aaron Chapin:
Maybe Jeff, maybe Rachel, we still haven't gotten a lot of emails. Come on, send us an email. We're going to use them on the air again in the near future and we'll share them with all of our listeners. But again, all you have to do is send an email to podcast@psea.org. Again, I'm Aaron Chapin.
Jeff Ney:
And I'm Jeff Nye.
Rachael West:
And I'm Rachel West.
Aaron Chapin:
And you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more, and don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.