Aaron and Rachael sit down with educator, instructional coach, author, and podcaster Suzanne Dailey, along with PSEA Mideastern Region President Bill Senavaitis, to explore practical strategies for staying positive in education. Suzanne shares insights from her Teach Happier podcast and book, offering science-backed techniques to help educators feel more grounded and fulfilled.
Aaron and Rachael sit down with educator, instructional coach, author, and podcaster Suzanne Dailey, along with PSEA Mideastern Region President Bill Senavaitis, to explore practical strategies for staying positive in education. Suzanne shares insights from her Teach Happier podcast and book, offering science-backed techniques to help educators feel more grounded and fulfilled.
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Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you. From cutting-edge classroom strategies to thought-provoking policy discussions, if it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President Aaron Chapin. I'm here today with PSEA Treasurer Rachael West. Rachael, I haven't seen you forever.
Rachael West:
It's been a long break. I'm sure you were really sad about not having time to visit with me.
Aaron Chapin:
No, that's not true. Well, we joked on a previous episode. I don't think it's been out yet, but yes, we missed you around here. You've been very busy in the month of January, even if this is getting released sometime down the road. You've been very busy this month.
Rachael West:
Yeah, I just got home from Atlanta, from the NEA MLT WLT.
Aaron Chapin:
And you were up in Erie.
Rachael West:
And I was in Erie. Yep.
Aaron Chapin:
You've been like hopscotching all around the East coast. So welcome back to the studio. It is great to have you back. We miss you when you're not around.
Rachael West:
I'm glad to be back.
Aaron Chapin:
And you can only take so much of Jeff.
Rachael West:
Sometimes you need a break.
Aaron Chapin:
I know. Trust me. I know. Well, Rachael, today I'm really excited about today's topic because we're going to be discussing positivity. I know, positivity for me, but it's about how to stay positive as an educator in the face of mounting challenges, which obviously a lot of our colleagues are facing. And here in the studio today, we've got two very special guests. We've got a fellow podcaster, somebody who actually knows what they're doing, Rachael.
Rachael West:
I hope that we don't embarrass ourselves.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, I think we already have. She teaches in the Central Bucks School District, so does her partner that's here today. But we're first talking about Suzanne Dailey. Suzanne began her career as an elementary teacher and spent the last 15 years as a staff developer, instructional coach, supporting and inspiring educators all across Central Bucks. And they got 15 elementary buildings.
Rachael West:
Wow.
Aaron Chapin:
Is that true? 15 buildings?
Rachael West:
That's true.
Aaron Chapin:
Holy mackerel, that's a lot of buildings. She's also the author of the book Teach Happier, which was published back in January of 2023. As we mentioned, she's a podcaster. She's got her own podcast, it's got the same name, Teach Happier, and it started in the thick of the COVID Pandemic back in November of 2020. Suzanne, welcome.
Suzanne Dailey:
Thanks so much for having me.
Aaron Chapin:
It is an absolute pleasure. And joining Suzanne is Bill Senavaitis. He's a ninth grade English teacher. He's the current PSEA Mideastern region President. Bill has worked closely with Suzanne, witnessed firsthand the impact she's had on our colleagues and the school community. So welcome to you, Bill.
Bill Senavaitis:
Thank you, Aaron.
Aaron Chapin:
It's great to have you here. It is great to have some of our colleagues from the board of directors when they can come in. In this episode, we're going to dive into Suzanne's journey as a coach, an author, and a podcast host, and explore some practical strategies for combating teacher burnout, which we know is going on all across the state in the United States and staying on the sunny side of things.
So Suzanne, Bill, welcome again to this podcast. Suzanne, I met you at the PSEA Special Ed Conference, God, I don't know, three, four years ago. It was right out of COVID though, one of the first big statewide events. And I was super impressed with how you were speaking with our members and they were just in awe of you. And when I saw you at the Mid-East Leadership Conference back in November, I was like, "Absolutely, we got to have her on." So I really want you to tell everybody what motivated you to transition from teaching to this role as a staff developer and instructional coach, and what do you enjoy most about helping your teachers with their craft?
Suzanne Dailey:
Well, like you said, there's 15 elementary schools, so that means I get to teach every single day. So that keeps me in the work. It keeps me working alongside colleagues and allows me to be realistic with the challenges we're facing every single day. So sometimes I teach with colleagues, sometimes I teach for colleagues, but again, in all 15 elementary buildings, I get to teach. And that's a wonderful way to impact a lot of students.
When I was a fourth grade teacher or a reading specialist, I had my class or my small groups to impact. Now potentially I can impact hundreds or thousands of kids through the work in our schools alongside their amazing teachers in Central Bucks.
Aaron Chapin:
That's a whole different way of thinking about this education process.
Rachael West:
So right now you're more working with the educators themselves, and that sounds really exciting. What inspired you to transition from teaching the elementary to working with teachers and then to write the book and do the podcast, Teach Happier? What made you make that jump and that transition?
Suzanne Dailey:
So thankfully, there's a lot of science and research out there to support well-being and happiness, if you will. And I just want to say from the jump when I'm saying happiness, I mean feeling content, feeling grounded, feeling as steady as possible in a really unsteady world. That's what I mean instead of, it's not toxic positivity, but what I noticed was there's so much out there, but not for us as teachers and our profession is so others oriented and there's so much we have to give during our days doing our important work, whatever our role is. And that's really hard and it's really tiring.
And so what I wanted to do is find a little space or create that space so that educators could find some of the science-backed research and these really small shifts in thoughts or language or actions that can help us not only in our classrooms but in our homes as well and honoring both the professional us and the personal side of us as well.
Aaron Chapin:
I don't believe that... When I listen to you, it's never about toxic positivity.
Rachael West:
No, I was listening on the way into your podcast from the beginning of January, just that transition into the New Beginnings and I read the title Teach Happier, and I wondered where happy landed with you. And I was actually really delighted to hear that it's more about just finding that grounded space and feeling comfortable and content with your life and the choices that you're able to make.
Aaron Chapin:
And look, I listened to your podcast as soon as we got out of that special education conference three, four years ago. I listened to it and I was blown away long before we were even thinking about doing this. But your podcast is super unique, really unique because they're short. I actually think you've gotten a little longer lately.
Suzanne Dailey:
I know we're like eight minutes.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh my gosh. It's crazy. But they're short, especially when you see all the podcasts that are out there and it's focused, which is great on helping teachers support staff improve their mental health, which again, it's something that we at PSEA have been trying to get more and more involved with. So what kind of response have you gotten from your listeners?
Suzanne Dailey:
Something I like to say in these really short episodes is I want folks to feel pleasantly underwhelmed. As teachers and parents and partners and friends and all those important roles we play in and outside of school, it's really tiring sometimes and it's really difficult. And so we can't be overwhelmed with anything more. So it's these little, I like to call them these two degree shifts, these really subtle shifts in the way that we talk about things, we think about things, or we discern our next right thing to provide action through things.
And so it drops on Sundays. So I find that most listeners listen to it either Sunday night when those Sunday Scaries set in, but most folks listen on the way to work Monday morning. That's where I get the most DMs or messages from folks saying, "Ooh, I'm going to try this." And what I hope most listeners find is, it's good for us, it's good for the students we teach, it's good for the family we love. These fundamental understandings, these practices can really help us in all of our places we are in our busy fully grown adult lives.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, and I just want everybody to know out there, when I first started listening to this podcast that you have, again, I was thinking about us at PSEA having this podcast, I knew we weren't going to be able to get it off the ground until I was taking on this role myself, but the length was part inspiration of why we do this podcast so short as well. So thank you very much. It means a lot. It was very inspirational.
Rachael West:
And so we've talked a lot about how you feel about it, and I'm going to just turn to you, Bill. You've known Suzanne for some time. We won't put any years on it, but can you share from your perspective what impact her being in the district and having these podcasts and books available? What is that doing for your school community?
Bill Senavaitis:
I think Suzanne's approach to things is always manageable and real. In our district and every district out there, we face challenges and you have to approach them in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming because it's easy to get overwhelmed at everything that's going on around you. Suzanne helps us focus on what's happening in front of us and our classrooms and our kids, and that's what I think I appreciate my colleagues appreciate most.
Aaron Chapin:
That's amazing. Your district goes along with this. They're just as much a part of this as Suzanne and the local leadership.
Bill Senavaitis:
Absolutely.
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome. Good for them.
Rachael West:
I hear your passion, Suzanne, for combating that burnout and just finding that place of peace and the burnout seems to be getting worse unfortunately, across the country. So what kind of data have you seen about these trend lines for educator burnout? What data are you using to guide that?
Suzanne Dailey:
So when I go and speak to organizations like I did with you Aaron or school districts, I show two graphs and they're both terribly depressing graphs. The first is the U-curve of happiness, and it basically shows over a typical lifetime what our happiness levels are. And between 26 and 66 is where it bottoms out. But that makes perfect sense. We're establishing ourselves professionally. We're raising families. We're caring for aging parents. We're giving our time and energy to causes we care deeply about, it's really hard.
And then you overlay that specifically for educators. So there's a 2022 RAND survey and it's this horrible bar graph because it shows color codes, teachers and administrators in blue and green, and then people who are working in non-education and it's their stress levels, educators are higher. Job-related stress, educators are higher. Depression symptoms, educators are higher. But then when we think of what we are lower in, it's our coping mechanisms and our resilience. So science is proving the way that we feel, which is in one part validating, but it also signals why it's so important to lean into some of this work and to figure out for us in our current season of life, what is our next right thing? How can we move through our days, as Bill was referencing earlier, as a rational optimist.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow. So Bill, you've been a local president off and on as you've been the Mid-Eastern region because you take time off when you're the Mid-Eastern region president. So how long have you been a leader in these different capacities?
Bill Senavaitis:
I became a local president in 2014.
Aaron Chapin:
All right, so you've been doing this well over a decade now. What are you seeing out there? Because obviously you see a lot of the effects that teacher mental health or support staff mental health is having. What are you seeing out there?
Bill Senavaitis:
You and I were preparing for this podcast and you mentioned we're going to talk about educator mental wellness and I replied to your email with that meme of the dog that's in the burning room saying this is fine. And it was meant to be funny and I thought about it throughout the weekend and I'm like, "It's not fine. People are not fine." But Suzanne and I had a conversation on the way out here. We're starting to see some things, at least in our region in bargaining that are addressing parts of the problem. We're starting to see a little bit of family leave time, paid family leave time creep into our contracts for however a new person comes into your household, which is great. We're starting to see a little bit of a reduction of meetings, which is great. So that's what we're seeing as a response to our members saying it needs to get better.
Aaron Chapin:
And you speak with your colleagues, fellow region presidents. We have 12 of them in PSEA's system. I assume when you all have conversations, they're seeing the same kind of effects, the mental health burnout.
Bill Senavaitis:
Absolutely. It seems to be.
Aaron Chapin:
Across the state?
Bill Senavaitis:
Yeah.
Aaron Chapin:
Suzanne, so what's one takeaway from your book, the podcast, your speak engagements? I'm not sure when you have time to be home that you've found really resonates most with your audience?
Suzanne Dailey:
Well, it's something Bill you've seen maybe a hundred times at this point, but across the country, I show a picture of a whitewater raft and I ask the audience every single time, what is the number one rule of whitewater rafting? I'm telling you, tens of thousands of people, nobody-
Bill Senavaitis:
Nobody gets it.
Suzanne Dailey:
Nobody never. So what kind of things do they say usually?
Bill Senavaitis:
Bring a pail. Don't forget your life jacket. Like their whole random list.
Suzanne Dailey:
Logical. Most are logical, but I always know that's not right. The number one rule, and especially when we have a whitewater rafter and they think they know it's wonderful when they get it wrong because the number one rule in whitewater rafting and our metaphor is be a part of your own rescue. If you find yourself off that raft, it's up to you to discern your next right thing. Do you hold onto your life jacket and let the current carry you until it's calmer, safer waters? Do you decide to pull up and have somebody get you back on the raft? It's up to you. It's an inside job. But what all the science, research, FMRI scans are showing is, so is happiness and wellness and feeling content grounded, steady. Be a part of your own rescue. That's what resonates the most.
Aaron Chapin:
I was going to say, don't have something sharp in your pocket.
Suzanne Dailey:
And that's also wrong.
Rachael West:
Put your own oxygen mask on first. It's essentially you have to take care of yourself first. So Bill, how has Suzanne and her practices and the way that she interacts with people and gives advice here, how do you think that has helped you personally in your teaching or your leadership journey? What's that doing for you knowing Suzanne?
Bill Senavaitis:
It's helped him in both capacities quite a bit. My most recent year in the classroom, we started gratitude practices on Fridays. That was part of our warmup and it was fascinating to get ninth graders focused on those just little bits of things that we can all agree or things to be happy and thankful about.
From a leadership perspective, I take a lot of Suzanne's advice about just being calm and present as much as I can, putting the device down, just making time and space for yourself in otherwise what's a very busy, complicated alert-ridden day.
Rachael West:
Leadership roles, there's no rest for the weary. And so that taking time to just be present.
Aaron Chapin:
Do you find that a lot of people you talk to, they bring these practices to the classroom as well?
Suzanne Dailey:
Yes. And so-
Aaron Chapin:
Because Bill talked about doing that on Fridays, which I think is a great idea, even with younger students, I would assume.
Suzanne Dailey:
Right. Because imagine if a ninth grader understands the science behind the practice of gratitude and how that truly neurobiologically changes your brain and helps you notice the good things in your life. If a kid learns that at 14, what could that look like at 24, 44, 64? That's where we create permanent positive change. That's so exciting.
Aaron Chapin:
Sweet.
Rachael West:
So now I'm just thinking about what Bill was saying. And so teachers, leaders are juggling a lot of things and inside of their roles as teachers or as leaders, but then you mentioned earlier, even at home, so you have a limited window of bandwidth. We just do. There's only so much there. So for people who haven't listened to any of your podcasts yet, and maybe this will help them decide they want to go and hear a little bit more from you, could you give us a few small practical things that our educators could do to combat burnout right now? Take care of their mental health a little bit more? Just a couple of things to give them a hint of what they would be listening to if they went to your podcast.
Suzanne Dailey:
Absolutely. And again, pleasantly underwhelmed, we need capacity and bandwidth to do our important work. Capacity and bandwidth is what we don't have really right now. So it's really small things. Coming into the new year, we talked about how do you create and withhold boundaries, not withhold, uphold boundaries. That's just so important to not just say what you need but uphold them. That takes some work, that takes practice. Small little shifts in language. We take what if and things that we worry about and then we change it to even if. Even if that thing I'm worrying about happens, what's my next right thing? It just helps our brain signal some agency that we may not know that we naturally have and capitalize on that so that we can be a part of our own rescue.
Aaron Chapin:
Awesome.
Rachael West:
Even if instead of what if you kind of take some of the panic out of the what if. You say, well, even if this happens, what would I do next?
Suzanne Dailey:
It gets you unstuck because what psychologists are telling us is about 10 to 20% of our lives is fixed. Something as benign as the weather to something as heartbreaking as an unexpected medical diagnosis. When we're in the what ifs, we're stuck in that 10 to 20%. What if we're late for the podcast recording? What if there's a tech failure? There's nothing we could do for that 10 to 20%. Even if we're late, we have Aaron's number. We will call him and tell him we're running behind. It puts us in a state of action and agency rather than in a state of I can't do anything. So there it is. What if to even if.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow.
Rachael West:
I'm taking it and running with it.
Suzanne Dailey:
Wonderful. And it'll be good. Again, it's good for us. It's good for your daughter, it's good for the kids we teach. These are just good things for living a human life.
Aaron Chapin:
And when I started doing this job, again, it's not any more stressful than what our classroom teachers, our support staff are going through, but I needed to find ways to cope. Last year especially was, it was just overwhelming and we've had to find ways and I've had to find ways. I've gotten a coach, but I listen. I try to do as many of these different things to try and adjust, tweak so that I can actually enjoy what I'm doing and be present at the same time. So important stuff. Rachael, we're going to try something different here.
Rachael West:
Okay.
Aaron Chapin:
Normally we do a pop quiz towards the end.
Rachael West:
No pop quiz today?
Aaron Chapin:
I know. We're going to try something different.
Rachael West:
Okay.
Aaron Chapin:
It's called the lightning round. I feel like we should have sound effects.
Rachael West:
Right?
Aaron Chapin:
We're not that fancy.
Rachael West:
Even if I don't get to do a pop quiz, I guess I'll get to do the lightning round.
Aaron Chapin:
You get to do the lightning round. It's the first one. You ready?
Rachael West:
You said you did there everybody.
Aaron Chapin:
So the whole idea, quick question, quick answer. Got it?
Rachael West:
I'm ready.
Aaron Chapin:
Hit it.
Rachael West:
Okay. I'm going to start with Suzanne.
Suzanne Dailey:
Okay.
Rachael West:
What is one book besides your own that every teacher should read?
Suzanne Dailey:
I like to call this book the brother book to Teach Happier this school year and it Strive for Happiness and Education by Rob Dunlop came out March 2020, so it didn't get the launch it deserved March 2020. It's a really bad time to launch a book.
Rachael West:
It's like there's something weird going on that year. All right, so this one's for both of you all. I'll start with Bill, what is your favorite moment or memory from your time as a classroom teacher?
Bill Senavaitis:
When I was teaching eighth grade, the grand finale of our curriculum at the end of the year was our students needed to perform an infomercial and they needed to show us how to do something. And I had this group of eighth grade boys that were very excited about cooking bacon and showing people how to cook bacon. And they brought in a skillet and they cooked their bacon and then it was lunch, so they wanted to eat their bacon, but then they had all this bacon fat, which they kindly put in a cup and sat on the air conditioner, which was fine. And we all went to lunch and of course the cup fell over and went all down the air conditioner. And that was sort of the end of what everyone was thinking about until I moved classrooms and the heat came on the following winter and the person in that classroom said, "Did this room smell like bacon when you were?" And said, "No. I don't know what that could possibly be. That's so strange."
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome.
Rachael West:
All right, well I'm not sure if you can top that, but Suzanne, how about you? Favorite memory?
Suzanne Dailey:
Well, I'm going to adjust the question a little bit because I can't top that. And that would be, actually, this just happened, Bill, is we were pulling in here. I see a message from one of my former fourth graders. I love hearing what their favorite moments were. I remember the big things. But when we get an email like, "Hey Mrs. Dailey, I don't know if you remember me." We always remember you. Do you remember when? Fill in the blank. That really helped me because it is just, I save every message that I get from my former students for the moments that they remember. Those really quiet, tucked in moments that just kind of went by us.
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome.
Rachael West:
Love it. All right, Suzanne, one more for you. If you could give teachers one piece of advice in one sentence, what would it be?
Suzanne Dailey:
Keep your eyes on your own paper
Rachael West:
Solid.
Suzanne Dailey:
Don't worry about what's going on next door to you across the hall. You do what's right for the kids in front of you. Keep your eyes on your own paper.
Rachael West:
All right, Bill, you ready? What is a self-care activity or ritual you swear by?
Bill Senavaitis:
Going on a news diet when you need to.
Aaron Chapin:
Amen.
Rachael West:
Oh, solid. All right, Suzanne?
Suzanne Dailey:
Similar. My phone goes away by 8:30 every night.
Rachael West:
All right, one more, we'll start with Suzanne. What is one thing about teaching that still surprises you even after all the years you've been in the classroom?
Suzanne Dailey:
With all the noise and all the challenges, it's still the most hopeful profession we could ever have.
Rachael West:
All right, Bill?
Bill Senavaitis:
How funny kids are. They are joyful, creative, happy creatures. And I love to be along for that ride. It's joyful. It's great.
Aaron Chapin:
And I've brought this up on multiple podcasts. This is a great job that we have. Being a state officer is fantastic, but one of the things I miss, just being in the classroom. And again, it's a really hard job being in the classroom. And there are days I know everybody out there is listening. Like there's days you want to pull the plug, but I miss those days in the classroom and having those interactions with our kids and nothing beats hanging out with students and the things that come out of their mouth. My goodness.
Rachael West:
I know. I think that's why I really loved doing Read Across America last year because I got a chance to be back around kids again and much younger kids than I was used to teaching. And it was an interesting day.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, one of the great things about this podcast, everybody, is that we get to meet people, bring them in and share them with you that you may never get to meet. And that's one of the great things about our job is we get to travel around the state, meet members that we never would've ever come in contact with. And one of them, of course is you. Thank you for agreeing to come in. Bill, it's been a pleasure having you in here as well. The two of you. You have such a great way of looking at things and trying to take care of our members and I really, really appreciate it. So thank you very much. And everybody, make sure you listen to the podcast if you haven't got it set. It's Teach Happier. Comes out on Sundays?
Suzanne Dailey:
That's right.
Aaron Chapin:
You take a little time off in the summer, right?
Suzanne Dailey:
That's right. We all take time off in the summer.
Aaron Chapin:
Except for me and Rachael.
Suzanne Dailey:
Sorry guys.
Aaron Chapin:
Well that's all right.
Suzanne Dailey:
Listen to old episodes in the summer.
Aaron Chapin:
Jeff always takes time off, so it's okay. We are well over our time. Sorry about that everybody. But the conversation was great today. Our guests have been Bill Senavaitis and Suzanne Dailey. Thank you again both for coming in here. It means a lot that you're actually in the studio. So thank you very much, Bill.
Bill Senavaitis:
Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, Rachael.
Aaron Chapin:
Thank you, Suzanne.
Suzanne Dailey:
Thanks for the opportunity.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh my gosh, thank you for being here. And thanks again to all of our listeners for tuning in. You have some feedback for us, got some questions? Want advice from Suzanne maybe? Email us at podcast@psea.org. I'm Aaron Chapin.
Rachael West:
And I'm Rachael West.
Aaron Chapin:
And you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more, and don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.