The PSEA officer team speaks with two frontline IU educators – Kathy Dunkle from IU #24 and Tina Giazzoni-Fialko from IU #22 – to unpack the real story behind Pennsylvania’s Intermediate Units. What exactly are IUs? Why do they matter? And how do they quietly power some of the most essential educational services across the state? Whether you’re an educator, school leader, or just IU-curious, this episode is for you.
Voiceover:
Welcome to Duty Free Lunch, the official podcast of the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Join us as we unpack the issues that matter most to you, from cutting edge classroom strategies to thought provoking policy discussions, if it impacts PSEA members, it's on the menu.
Aaron Chapin:
Hello and welcome to Duty Free Lunch. I'm PSEA President Aaron Chapin. I'm here today with PSEA Vice President Jeff Ney and PSEA Treasurer Rachael West. Hello Jeff and Rachael.
Jeff Ney:
Hey Aaron, how are we doing today?
Aaron Chapin:
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Rachael, how are you doing?
Rachael West:
Always a pleasure to be here in the podcast studio.
Aaron Chapin:
Yes, it is. We've been doing a lot of these lately.
Jeff Ney:
It's been fantastic.
Aaron Chapin:
It has been. But we got to get things started. I know-
Jeff Ney:
We got a lot of stuff to ask.
Aaron Chapin:
It seems like we're cutting the consumers out of the mindless banter that we have in the beginning.
Jeff Ney:
If they want it they can come to us separately.
Aaron Chapin:
Call Jeff at PSEA, you can get your mindless banter.
Jeff Ney:
There you go.
Aaron Chapin:
But we have some really important information to talk about today, so we're going to jump right into it. We're going to be shedding some light on the critical but sometimes misunderstood aspect of our education system here in Pennsylvania. It's our intermediate units or, as we all like to call them back home the schools, the IUs. You ever call it that, Jeff?
Jeff Ney:
All the time.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah, that's right. We have 29 IUs. Did you know that?
Jeff Ney:
I did not know that.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, it's in the script. We have 29 IUs. They're scattered across the state and they serve as key support structures within their regions. We're joined by two wonderful educators who understand IUs very well. We got Kathy Dunkle, she works as an elementary teacher at IU number 24 in the great Chester County. Hello Kathy. She's waving her fist.
Jeff Ney:
Fist pump.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. She's still pumped up on the Super Bowl.
Kathy Dunkle:
[inaudible 00:01:54] hello Aaron, Jeff, and Rachael.
Aaron Chapin:
Welcome Kathy. And we've got Tina Giazzoni-Fialko. Did I get it right?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
You got it right.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh my goodness, I was stressed to hell about it. She's an occupational therapist at IU 22, and the even better Bucks County. Tina, how are you doing?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
I'm great.
Aaron Chapin:
Welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you both. It's nice to wrangle you both into the same space and interview you both today. Couldn't think of two better people to talk about IUs because, I'll be honest, I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be about IUs. So, this is a little selfish me bringing them in.
Jeff Ney:
That's great. If you've got the questions then so do the members.
Aaron Chapin:
I'm the president, so I can do that.
Jeff Ney:
Okay.
Aaron Chapin:
That's right. So, let's get started. First of all, let's start with just the basics. For those who are new to education, maybe you've just not as familiar like me, what are intermediate units or IUs, and what role do they play in Pennsylvania's public school system? Kathy, I'm going to start with you.
Kathy Dunkle:
Thanks, Aaron. Intermediate units are essentially conduits to provide essential educational services to both public and non-public schools in the state.
Aaron Chapin:
All right. Tina, anything you want to add to that?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
IUs don't have any traditional taxpayer revenue streams. Instead, IUs depend on contracts and grants for services that include early intervention, headstart, PK count, special education services, online learning, adult programs, cooperative purchasing, therapeutic services, technology support, data processing, to name a few.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow. My goodness. A few, that's a whole bunch.
Rachael West:
So, I'll say that's a lot of things that the IUs provide.
Aaron Chapin:
That is. So, are either one of you a product of an IU in your own education journey?
Kathy Dunkle:
I am not. I did not grow up in Pennsylvania.
Aaron Chapin:
How about you, Tina?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
So, I was never a student who received IU services; however, I participated in some of the education that IUs have provided, professional education as an occupational therapist. So, in that way I have benefited from IUs beyond just being an employee of an IU.
Jeff Ney:
Interesting. So, one of the things that obviously the officers, we go around and we peddle that we need to be able to collaborate with each other on an ongoing basis, and it just brings together educators and specialists and community partners to support students in the district. Tina, I'm going to start with you. Can you share an example of how working with others in the IU community has strengthened your work and helped make you give you a bigger impact on the students that you serve?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
Okay. So, I have two answers to this. The first is the information that I gathered for this podcast, I was able to gather by asking my colleagues, my coworkers, administrators, and the executive director of Bucks IU, and that's what we do with IUs. The second part is every day as an OT I work as a part of a team, and we all support each other using our expertise to support kids and their families. And so that's the best thing about being a part of an IU.
Jeff Ney:
And Kathy, how about you? As an elementary teacher in the IU world, how do you find it?
Kathy Dunkle:
I find that especially as an IU president for REA, that we are constantly collaborating across districts, whether it's in the field of education, we're pulling together our OTs, our SLPs, but also other region presidents, other district presidents, who will help me find some of my itinerant staff in their buildings and make sure that they feel a part of the EA. So, there's a constant collaboration within IUs and the districts that they serve.
Aaron Chapin:
Great.
Rachael West:
That's awesome. So, I heard Tina mention this, and as you were talking about the teachers that you're reaching out to and finding your itinerant staff, I heard you say something about there are professional development opportunities that IUs provide for teachers and administrators. Tina, since you had mentioned that you had used some of those services, could you share with us an example of something like that the IU provides?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
Sure. My first introduction to Bucks IU was they were hosting a sensory integration professional enhancement certificate through Temple University, and they were hosting it at the IU. And so I participated in that before I was even employed there and that was my introduction to the IU. They host a lot of trainings for different professionals, administrators. So there's on a weekly or daily basis, education opportunities at the IU and then the IU goes out to districts and provides education.
Rachael West:
Awesome.
Aaron Chapin:
Kathy, how long you been working at IU 24?
Kathy Dunkle:
I've been there for 19 years.
Aaron Chapin:
All right, so I'm guessing during that time there's been a lot of examples of some innovative programs or services that the IUs have introduced to address student needs over that time?
Kathy Dunkle:
Absolutely. During the Corbett years we very much became a marketplace. So, anything a district needed, we were able to provide. Everything from teachers on ... We call them TOSAs, Teachers on Special Assignment, to consortium buying, consortiums for healthcare. We do a lot of STEM and e-games. We have virtual academy that supports a lot of the districts within our county and districts without of our county.
Aaron Chapin:
Excellent.
Rachael West:
Wow, okay. So, when, Tina, you were listing a lot of the different things that an IU can provide. It sounds to me like they might play a pretty integral role in the special ed services. So, how do they ensure that students receive the support that they need in the districts or in the IU itself?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
So, the IU contracts special education related services with districts, so that's the [inaudible 00:08:49] speech, PT, vision, hearing, those types of services. They also provide things like assistive technology services for districts. They support really specialized needs like, say kids have a seating plan, seating needs, and RIU has classrooms in school districts, like autistic support classrooms. There are multiple disability classrooms where there's students who need a higher level of support and they can be in the building with their peers in classrooms that provide the high level of support. And then, of course-
Jeff Ney:
I'm sorry, Tina, keep going.
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
Yes. And then of course what I do is preschool early intervention, and that is kind of the foundation of what kids need to be successful in school.
Jeff Ney:
So, I've worked with my local IU when I was a teacher back in Wilkes-Barre area, shout out to Lucerne IU 18. But since the pandemic, Pennsylvania IUs have had to adapt themselves to service and support schools and shift to a more digital and hybrid learning. Kathy, you started off talking about you do some virtual e-games and different things like that. What other ways do our IUs help our districts out, especially in the virtual and digital world?
Kathy Dunkle:
During the virtual time, we have a school that supports the students in Chester County and other counties that cannot be supported by their districts. So, those teachers became innovative very quickly. They were able to get these multiple disability students, students with autism, students with behavior issues, online and supported as quickly as possible. And a lot of that was thanks to training from our Brandywine Virtual Academy teachers, who had already been working with students online for years prior. So, they were able to jump in and provide training for all of us who had no idea what Zoom was.
Jeff Ney:
And Tina, as an occupational therapist, are there things that you guys do as far as virtual and digital learning or do you still need to report to the brick and mortars?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
So, as an OT in preschool, everything that I'm doing right now is in person, so however we do things like Zoom meetings for IEPs for families, which makes it way more convenient than them trying to get to a specific location to hold those meetings.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, I'm going to stick with you, Tina. I'm curious. Any partnerships that your IU has with some of the businesses, maybe some higher ed institutions or community organizations there in the Bucks County area that really help enhance student learning and career readiness?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
Yes. So, Bucks IU has affiliation agreements with most local universities in the area to support things like student teachers, affiliations, and the special ed administration team, they attend career fairs. So they reach out to the community in that way. And then they also have an 18 to 21 program and an adult program, where there's opportunities to interact with the community.
Aaron Chapin:
Yeah. Very valuable for our students. Especially when we're trying to get them ready for careers once they're adults. Kathy, same kind of programs available and partnerships down your way?
Kathy Dunkle:
Absolutely. We have a partnership with Delaware County Community College. A lot of our students from the CTE programs, our career and technical ed, are working with businesses in the community as an internship, and many are then hired later. So, it's a really great example of how we can train students in a field that needs people to work in. And they're getting not only the textbook learning but also the on the job training.
Aaron Chapin:
You feel like these businesses and institutions are really willing in your area to be partners with you?
Kathy Dunkle:
Yes. In fact, some of them will come looking for us because our programs have such a great reputation.
Aaron Chapin:
That's awesome.
Rachael West:
Spectacular.
Aaron Chapin:
Love to hear that. Love the community getting involved.
Jeff Ney:
Always.
Rachael West:
Absolutely. So, an IU is not just a single school district. So, how do you collaborate with the local school districts to provide cost effective shared services, like technology support, transportation, or any other example that you might have? One of you looks like you have an answer right off the top of your head. You could go ahead.
Kathy Dunkle:
I'll go ahead and start with that. An IU board is comprised of one member from each district that we serve. And through that connection, they are able to learn about the multitude of services we can provide. Our financial advisor will go out and help districts with budgeting. We help with superintendent searches. We provide internet services to schools, IT services, consortium buying. So, they're constantly looking to the IU as sort of the gathering place, sending what they need, and then the IU is working diligently to find the best deal for everyone that's going to meet the need. Whether it's a student need or whether it's a building safety program need.
Rachael West:
Awesome. Tina, did you think of anything else that you could add to what Kathy listed or you think she covered it?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
I think Kathy covered it.
Rachael West:
Spectacular.
Jeff Ney:
Rachael, before you go on, Kathy, how many different districts does Chester County IU cover?
Kathy Dunkle:
We cover 12 districts. However, we have students from, I believe, over 20 districts.
Jeff Ney:
Wow.
Kathy Dunkle:
We have students coming over an hour on a bus to get to some of our schools, so yeah.
Jeff Ney:
Tina, how about Bucks? Do you know how many districts Bucks-
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
It's either 12 or 13. I should know this answer but I don't.
Jeff Ney:
Just for our listeners to know that, like Rachael said, it's more than just one district.
Aaron Chapin:
Amazing.
Rachael West:
Right. So, what do you think educators and school leaders should know about how to access these resources? I knew that we had an IU and I knew how it helped our students in the district that I worked in, but I don't think I knew quite all of the other background things that you guys have added to my knowledge about that. So, how can districts access those resources and advocate for the support they need. Who would they contact or how would they do that?
Kathy Dunkle:
I'll start. I think the best thing is the superintendents in the counties should be meeting together. That's number one. Number two, inviting the IU to board meetings to share what services they can provide. And number three, making a phone call to the front desk of any IU and they'll connect you with someone who can help you with your question.
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
And then to add to that, because I work in preschool, parents are directly accessing preschool services by contacting the IU saying, "I think my child might have a need." And then they are interviewed and then that leads to an evaluation for preschool early intervention services. So, families can also reach out directly for preschool students who have needs.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow. There's a lot of services that are at fingertips of our families and all these communities.
Jeff Ney:
It's one of those things that nobody really thinks about on a day-to-day basis. They're just assuming, oh, the kids are going to get access to all of these things.
Aaron Chapin:
Exactly, exactly. So, and I'm assuming, I'll start with you, Tina, our intermediate units, they really contribute to addressing educational equity across Pennsylvania or at least in your area. Particularly in these underserved communities. Would you find that to be true?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
Yes. So, I think what comes to mind for me is our headstart in pre-K counts classrooms. And those are classrooms that are free preschool programs based on income. So, that stands out most to me as important related to that.
Aaron Chapin:
What about you, Kathy?
Kathy Dunkle:
I think some of our most important things that we do is parent education, especially of our preschool students. They will provide courses, services. One of our schools has a food bank for an area that definitely has some need, some food instability. They provide holiday shops. We have a lot of migrant services in our area. Again, they have adults as well as school-age services.
Jeff Ney:
So, I want to loop back to a question that I asked you both earlier since neither one of you are products of an IU yourselves. What was that thing that drew you to want to work in an IU yourself? Tina, you have a big smile on your face. You must have this answer, so I'm going to go to you first.
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
So, when I first experienced being together with people who worked in an IU, I felt like there was this sense of a strong team, really excellent therapists who were knowledgeable and who believed in supporting each other. And so when the opportunity came up to work at Bucks IU, that's what I wanted to do because I wanted to be around great teammates and that's exactly what I experienced at Bucks IU.
Aaron Chapin:
She found her people.
Jeff Ney:
My goodness, that's fantastic. Now, and Kathy, you said you were out of state. So, what brought you to the IU?
Kathy Dunkle:
I graduated from college and I worked for non-public schools because teachers were a dime a dozen when I graduate. And I had a math specialist from the IU that worked with me four days a week, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. So, when an opportunity came for me to switch over to an IU, I grabbed it and, like Tina said, it is a group like no other. We are not in traditional school buildings. We are spread everywhere. But when you bring them all together, the collective power of all those educators in one room with a wide variety of experiences, you're going to walk out learning something every time. And I love the camaraderie.
Jeff Ney:
See, that is why the three of us, we have the greatest job to hear the stories like that. We've always said that teaching is not a job, it's a calling, and absolutely we're hearing it from both of them.
Aaron Chapin:
I've known Tina now just over a year-and-a-half since I started being president. Met Kathy, really getting to know her as she joined our board of directors. The two of you are just amazing human beings, and it truly seems like you have found your calling in life. I love to see ... Our listeners can't see you right now, but the beaming faces right now. They're so proud of the work they do. I couldn't be prouder just to be your president. You guys are amazing examples of educators.
But guess what, Jeff?
Jeff Ney:
Please tell me it's pop quiz time.
Aaron Chapin:
Pop quiz time. Pop quiz. Hit it, Jeff.
Jeff Ney:
So, I've had to work hard and I've got a pop quiz question for each of you. So, Tina, I'm going to start with you and it's an easy one. True or false, okay? So, you got 50/50 shot. Every school district in Pennsylvania is required to be part of an intermediate unit.
Aaron Chapin:
True or false?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
I think true.
Jeff Ney:
That is 100% true. Yes, every one of our districts has to have some kind of alignment in with one of our intermediate units. That's fantastic.
Aaron Chapin:
Did you research that question?
Jeff Ney:
I did.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow.
Jeff Ney:
Terribly.
Rachael West:
No pressure, Kathy, but Tina got hers right.
Aaron Chapin:
There's no tiebreaker though. Go ahead.
Kathy Dunkle:
I'm kind of sweating a little bit here.
Jeff Ney:
So, I'm going a little bit harder now.
Aaron Chapin:
Oh, this is a good question.
Jeff Ney:
All right, so Kathy, what IU serves the largest ... Because you both said that you guys service in the teens the number of school districts. Which one of the ... Aaron, what did you say, 28 IUs? 29 IUs. Which one of the 29 IUs serves the largest number of school districts in Pennsylvania? I'm going to give you a hint. It's not on your sides of the state.
Kathy Dunkle:
It is definitely on the western side of the state. I'm going to tell you right off I do not know the number, but it serves, I believe, four different counties of our state. But I'm sorry, I'm not going to know the number.
Jeff Ney:
Well, it's Allegheny IU, it's actually just one county.
Kathy Dunkle:
Yeah, that would make sense.
Jeff Ney:
But believe it or not, there's 42 school districts in Allegheny County that that IU serves.
Aaron Chapin:
Wow.
Kathy Dunkle:
Way to go, Allegheny. Good job.
Jeff Ney:
My goodness.
Aaron Chapin:
I thought you were going to pull out one of your spelling questions this time.
Jeff Ney:
No.
Aaron Chapin:
That would be a horrible pop quiz.
Jeff Ney:
That would be a horrible pop quiz.
Aaron Chapin:
Uh oh, Tina went away for a second. She came right back. Oh good.
Jeff Ney:
Maybe the times table test. That would be fantastic.
Aaron Chapin:
Unfortunately-
Rachael West:
Imagine it.
Aaron Chapin:
Thank goodness we're out of time. We are out of time, and our guests today, Kathy Dunkle and Tina Giazzoni-Fialko. Did I get it right again?
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
You got it, yes.
Aaron Chapin:
All right. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thanks for all that you do. Thanks for what you do for our kids in Pennsylvania. You are just true superstars of the world, so thank you very much. We really appreciate you being here after school.
Tina Giazzonia-Fialko:
Thanks for having us.
Aaron Chapin:
You got it. Kathy?
Kathy Dunkle:
Thanks for having us and thanks for all you do to support IUs.
Aaron Chapin:
Well, thank you for pushing us to learn more and more. I appreciate it. Thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. Got some feedback for us? Questions, comments, want advice from Jeff or Rachael? Got to send us an email at podcast@psea.org. I'm Aaron Chapin.
Jeff Ney:
And I'm Jeff Ney.
Rachael West:
And I'm Rachael West.
Aaron Chapin:
And you have been listening to Duty Free Lunch. Bye for now.
Voiceover:
You've been listening to Duty Free Lunch with the Pennsylvania State Education Association. Visit psea.org/podcast to learn more. And don't forget to subscribe and share. Paid for by the Pennsylvania State Education Association.